4 ms·

Things I have never understood about the US: Why does a divorce cost money?

CydeWeys 7y ago
Lawyers are expensive. Divorces are doubly expensive for the same reason that the Civil War saw the most dead American soldiers.
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  Why do you need a lawyer for a divorce? I understand that if there's a conflict you need a court to resolve, then yes, you need a lawyer. But there has to be a significant number of divorces that are amicable, both parties agree to divorce, and you can divide your shared assets 50/50 in a fair way that both parties agree on, right? Do you need a lawyer in those cases? Or are those cases so incredibly rare because of cultural reasons that everyone just assumes a divorce costs money?
  - nordsieck 7y ago
    > Why do you need a lawyer for a divorce? You don't need a lawyer for a divorce in the same sense that you don't need a lawyer ever. Plenty of people succeed at pro se law all the time. There is a good reason why people recommend lawyers, though, and that is because the law is very complicated. I think lawyers are great at a few things: 1. They'll help you dot your i's and cross your t's. Even if the divorce is amicable, it's probably a good idea to do up the paper work and then take it by a lawyer just to make sure everything is done up right. 2. They'll keep everything above board. A decent lawyer will tell you about what is achievable in a divorce, which is a much better starting place for amicable negotiations than what feels right. 3. They'll help you protect yourself. Is it a good idea to move out of the marital home? What happens if your spouse incurs debt during the separation? These sorts of questions are often quickly answered and very important to get right. > Or are those cases so incredibly rare because of cultural reasons that everyone just assumes a divorce costs money? The breakup of personal relationships, such as a marriage, often result in very strong, negative emotions. I don't have any data on how frequent divorces are contentious, but it would not surprise me to learn that most are. My guess is that part of your perception, however, is anchored in media - both social and traditional. There, contentious and expensive divorces are simply more interesting and are probably over-represented.
    - henrikschroder 7y ago
      Just as a preface, where I'm from, divorce does not typically cost any money at all, you never use a lawyer, it's simple paperwork that you send in to the tax authority and that's it. Only if the disagreement on how to split the assets is so strong that one party threatens court do you need a lawyer. Also, if there's kids involved, you need a shared custody agreement which might result in one party paying child support to the other, but that's a thing that's triggered by the divorce, it's not part of the divorce itself. > it's probably a good idea to do up the paper work and then take it by a lawyer How hard can divorce paperwork be? "We're done, signed: A, B" How can you screw it up? If you get confirmation from whatever government body that keeps track of it, you're divorced, right? Otherwise you're not divorced? > what is achievable in a divorce What? You split your assets 50/50 and then you're done? What else is there to argue about? > What happens if your spouse incurs debt during the separation? Wait, what, how long does a divorce normally take in the US? > My guess is that part of your perception, however, is anchored in media No, no. I was specifically responding to some grandparent poster that claimed a "cheap divorce" only cost about $5000. I think that's an outrageous amount of money, and I don't understand why people in the US seem to be ok with divorce having to cost any money at all?
      - nordsieck 7y ago
        > Also, if there's kids involved, you need a shared custody agreement which might result in one party paying child support to the other, but that's a thing that's triggered by the divorce, it's not part of the divorce itself. In the US, child support is not automatic. If either party goes to court, court ordered child support can be arranged, but otherwise, it is left up to the parties involved (I could be wrong about this, and it might vary from state to state). > How hard can divorce paperwork be? "We're done, signed: A, B" How can you screw it up? Honestly, I'm not a lawyer, and I've never been divorced, so I don't know. But I do know that something as "simple" as a will is pretty easy to screw up. I can't imagine other aspects of family law are any different. > You split your assets 50/50 and then you're done? What else is there to argue about? 1. Sometimes assets are not so easy to split. Partnerships in small businesses, pensions, membership in a family business, etc. 2. There are 2 property systems. One is "community property", where everything is considered to be jointly owned by the couple. In the other, people own what they own. I'm not very well versed in the difference. 3. People generally are not expected to split property they came into the marriage with or gained via inheritance. However, if it becomes co-mingled in certain ways with marital property, then it becomes marital property. 4. Sometimes people want to keep certain pieces of property (e.g. heirlooms). Properly valuing these can be difficult. There are probably other issues that I'm not familiar with - this is just the stuff that comes to mind. > Wait, what, how long does a divorce normally take in the US? It varies from state to state. Some states require 1 year separation before a divorce is granted. If lawyers and money are involved, it could be very long indeed.
  - epicureanideal 7y ago
    I'm not sure what the statistics are, but the high conflict cases anecdotally seem to be as frequent as the amicable ones, and the "medium conflict" ones that still cost 10s of thousands of dollars seem very common. The whole marriage/divorce system is (unintentionally) designed such that conflict is likely, and there are also plenty of lawyers and maybe-or-maybe-not-well-meaning friends to stoke the flames.

Lawyers are expensive. Divorces are doubly expensive for the same reason that the Civil War saw the most dead American soldiers.

henrikschroder 7y ago
Why do you need a lawyer for a divorce? I understand that if there's a conflict you need a court to resolve, then yes, you need a lawyer. But there has to be a significant number of divorces that are amicable, both parties agree to divorce, and you can divide your shared assets 50/50 in a fair way that both parties agree on, right? Do you need a lawyer in those cases? Or are those cases so incredibly rare because of cultural reasons that everyone just assumes a divorce costs money?
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > Why do you need a lawyer for a divorce? You don't need a lawyer for a divorce in the same sense that you don't need a lawyer ever. Plenty of people succeed at pro se law all the time. There is a good reason why people recommend lawyers, though, and that is because the law is very complicated. I think lawyers are great at a few things: 1. They'll help you dot your i's and cross your t's. Even if the divorce is amicable, it's probably a good idea to do up the paper work and then take it by a lawyer just to make sure everything is done up right. 2. They'll keep everything above board. A decent lawyer will tell you about what is achievable in a divorce, which is a much better starting place for amicable negotiations than what feels right. 3. They'll help you protect yourself. Is it a good idea to move out of the marital home? What happens if your spouse incurs debt during the separation? These sorts of questions are often quickly answered and very important to get right. > Or are those cases so incredibly rare because of cultural reasons that everyone just assumes a divorce costs money? The breakup of personal relationships, such as a marriage, often result in very strong, negative emotions. I don't have any data on how frequent divorces are contentious, but it would not surprise me to learn that most are. My guess is that part of your perception, however, is anchored in media - both social and traditional. There, contentious and expensive divorces are simply more interesting and are probably over-represented.
  - henrikschroder 7y ago
    Just as a preface, where I'm from, divorce does not typically cost any money at all, you never use a lawyer, it's simple paperwork that you send in to the tax authority and that's it. Only if the disagreement on how to split the assets is so strong that one party threatens court do you need a lawyer. Also, if there's kids involved, you need a shared custody agreement which might result in one party paying child support to the other, but that's a thing that's triggered by the divorce, it's not part of the divorce itself. > it's probably a good idea to do up the paper work and then take it by a lawyer How hard can divorce paperwork be? "We're done, signed: A, B" How can you screw it up? If you get confirmation from whatever government body that keeps track of it, you're divorced, right? Otherwise you're not divorced? > what is achievable in a divorce What? You split your assets 50/50 and then you're done? What else is there to argue about? > What happens if your spouse incurs debt during the separation? Wait, what, how long does a divorce normally take in the US? > My guess is that part of your perception, however, is anchored in media No, no. I was specifically responding to some grandparent poster that claimed a "cheap divorce" only cost about $5000. I think that's an outrageous amount of money, and I don't understand why people in the US seem to be ok with divorce having to cost any money at all?
    - nordsieck 7y ago
      > Also, if there's kids involved, you need a shared custody agreement which might result in one party paying child support to the other, but that's a thing that's triggered by the divorce, it's not part of the divorce itself. In the US, child support is not automatic. If either party goes to court, court ordered child support can be arranged, but otherwise, it is left up to the parties involved (I could be wrong about this, and it might vary from state to state). > How hard can divorce paperwork be? "We're done, signed: A, B" How can you screw it up? Honestly, I'm not a lawyer, and I've never been divorced, so I don't know. But I do know that something as "simple" as a will is pretty easy to screw up. I can't imagine other aspects of family law are any different. > You split your assets 50/50 and then you're done? What else is there to argue about? 1. Sometimes assets are not so easy to split. Partnerships in small businesses, pensions, membership in a family business, etc. 2. There are 2 property systems. One is "community property", where everything is considered to be jointly owned by the couple. In the other, people own what they own. I'm not very well versed in the difference. 3. People generally are not expected to split property they came into the marriage with or gained via inheritance. However, if it becomes co-mingled in certain ways with marital property, then it becomes marital property. 4. Sometimes people want to keep certain pieces of property (e.g. heirlooms). Properly valuing these can be difficult. There are probably other issues that I'm not familiar with - this is just the stuff that comes to mind. > Wait, what, how long does a divorce normally take in the US? It varies from state to state. Some states require 1 year separation before a divorce is granted. If lawyers and money are involved, it could be very long indeed.
- epicureanideal 7y ago
  I'm not sure what the statistics are, but the high conflict cases anecdotally seem to be as frequent as the amicable ones, and the "medium conflict" ones that still cost 10s of thousands of dollars seem very common. The whole marriage/divorce system is (unintentionally) designed such that conflict is likely, and there are also plenty of lawyers and maybe-or-maybe-not-well-meaning friends to stoke the flames.