8 ms·

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

by wolco 7y ago

kwizzt 7y ago
You shouldn't treat China as a single entity. The question should be whether the Chinese people can come up with the design.
- choonway 7y ago
  You know, I have nothing against China building things from scratch on their own. I'm sure there are engineers in China who disdain all these espionage efforts and want to do their own original works, but are forced to "make use" of the information.
- blunte 7y ago
  Given time, resources, and education, certainly Chinese people can come up with functional solutions to any problem. The same is true for people of practically any other country. But it seems that for one reason or other, technology theft is attractive enough to be a primary method of "innovating" in some places. It's really a matter of degrees. People copy anything they see that seems like a good idea (better than the idea they previously had). It's just a matter of how much original effort is put in vs how much detail from the other party's effort is acquired and used to fast-track the development. In complex projects like this, just seeing provides limited benefit. But in other simpler cases, just see another's working model can convey enough information for the newcomer to quickly come up to speed and compete.
sithadmin 7y ago
The Swiss watchmaking industry was once largely focused on producing cheap copies of English and French watches. Today Swiss watchmakers are renowned for quality and innovation.
- azernik 7y ago
  And going even farther back, the British industrial revolution was built on producing cheap copies of Indian textiles.
  - cat199 7y ago
    ... using machines that british people invented. get the overall point, but not sure this is a good example.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      I think that is specifically the point. The copycats automate and improve, then dominate.
    - fsloth 7y ago
      US copied british factories by industrial espionage to bootstrap their own industry and eventually became the bigger industrial producer...
      - JackFr 7y ago
        "On December 20, 1790, water-powered machinery for spinning and carding cotton was set in motion in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Based on the designs of English inventor Richard Arkwright, a mill was built by Samuel Slater on the Blackstone River. The Slater mill was the first American factory to successfully produce cotton yarn with water-powered machines. Slater was a recent English immigrant who apprenticed Arkwright's partner, Jebediah Strutt. Samuel Slater had evaded British law against emigration of textile workers in order to seek his fortune in America. Considered the father of the United States textile industry, he eventually built several successful cotton mills in New England and established the town of Slatersville, Rhode Island." https://www.thoughtco.com/richard-arkwright-water-frame-1991693 https://www.thoughtco.com/richard-arkwright-water-frame-1991...
  - tobltobs 7y ago
    And the label "Made in Germany" was once created by the British to protect their own manufacturing from cheap clones from Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany
chillacy 7y ago
Once upon a time German and Japanese manufacturers were laughed at as mere copies too.
sangnoir 7y ago
I'm sure this kind of thinking contributed to American drone companies getting their asses handed to them by DJI
aclsid 7y ago
Didn't you see the news they are making a 1000Kph train?
onion2k 7y ago
There's a lot to be said for letting someone else spend billions perfecting a design and then just copying it. If you can do it quickly and make improvements you'll maintain second place very cheaply, which let's you spend the rest of your resources on more useful things.
- growlist 7y ago
  I'm still hoping the UK's space strategy (satellites and SABRE excepted) is about playing the extremely long game.
williamchangnpu 7y ago
It's intriguing to see that during the last 3 decades, China has made so much progress, and from a historical perspective, I think China will make its own plane, just like how they made their own cars and trains, I do think they have the ability to reverse engineer the plane related stuff,sooner or later, but innorvaton is another thing, it totally make sense to me that China wants to copycat all the high tech stuff, and also, the counter massure that US took is totally reasonable. From the human species' point of view, it is fascinating.
pinkfoot 7y ago
5G patents by country… https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F8%2F9%2F3%2F9%2F20319398-1-eng-GB%2F20190415-5G-Key-patent-Hrz.png?source=nar-cms https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt... Answer: yes.
mhandley 7y ago
If you look at the top computer systems and networking conferences, you'll see an increasing fraction of the research is from the top Chinese universities. The best Chinese students used to go abroad for their PhD studies. In the last five years or so, this has significantly changed, and Chinese home-grown research is just as innovative as US or European research. I've no reason to believe that aerospace will be any different, except that the lead times are probably quite a bit longer.

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

by wolco 7y ago

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

kwizzt 7y ago

You shouldn't treat China as a single entity. The question should be whether the Chinese people can come up with the design.

choonway 7y ago
You know, I have nothing against China building things from scratch on their own. I'm sure there are engineers in China who disdain all these espionage efforts and want to do their own original works, but are forced to "make use" of the information.
blunte 7y ago
Given time, resources, and education, certainly Chinese people can come up with functional solutions to any problem. The same is true for people of practically any other country. But it seems that for one reason or other, technology theft is attractive enough to be a primary method of "innovating" in some places. It's really a matter of degrees. People copy anything they see that seems like a good idea (better than the idea they previously had). It's just a matter of how much original effort is put in vs how much detail from the other party's effort is acquired and used to fast-track the development. In complex projects like this, just seeing provides limited benefit. But in other simpler cases, just see another's working model can convey enough information for the newcomer to quickly come up to speed and compete.

sithadmin 7y ago

The Swiss watchmaking industry was once largely focused on producing cheap copies of English and French watches. Today Swiss watchmakers are renowned for quality and innovation.

azernik 7y ago
And going even farther back, the British industrial revolution was built on producing cheap copies of Indian textiles.
- cat199 7y ago
  ... using machines that british people invented. get the overall point, but not sure this is a good example.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    I think that is specifically the point. The copycats automate and improve, then dominate.
  - fsloth 7y ago
    US copied british factories by industrial espionage to bootstrap their own industry and eventually became the bigger industrial producer...
    - JackFr 7y ago
      "On December 20, 1790, water-powered machinery for spinning and carding cotton was set in motion in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Based on the designs of English inventor Richard Arkwright, a mill was built by Samuel Slater on the Blackstone River. The Slater mill was the first American factory to successfully produce cotton yarn with water-powered machines. Slater was a recent English immigrant who apprenticed Arkwright's partner, Jebediah Strutt. Samuel Slater had evaded British law against emigration of textile workers in order to seek his fortune in America. Considered the father of the United States textile industry, he eventually built several successful cotton mills in New England and established the town of Slatersville, Rhode Island." https://www.thoughtco.com/richard-arkwright-water-frame-1991693 https://www.thoughtco.com/richard-arkwright-water-frame-1991...
- tobltobs 7y ago
  And the label "Made in Germany" was once created by the British to protect their own manufacturing from cheap clones from Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany

chillacy 7y ago

Once upon a time German and Japanese manufacturers were laughed at as mere copies too.

sangnoir 7y ago

I'm sure this kind of thinking contributed to American drone companies getting their asses handed to them by DJI

aclsid 7y ago

Didn't you see the news they are making a 1000Kph train?

onion2k 7y ago

There's a lot to be said for letting someone else spend billions perfecting a design and then just copying it. If you can do it quickly and make improvements you'll maintain second place very cheaply, which let's you spend the rest of your resources on more useful things.

growlist 7y ago
I'm still hoping the UK's space strategy (satellites and SABRE excepted) is about playing the extremely long game.

williamchangnpu 7y ago

It's intriguing to see that during the last 3 decades, China has made so much progress, and from a historical perspective, I think China will make its own plane, just like how they made their own cars and trains, I do think they have the ability to reverse engineer the plane related stuff,sooner or later, but innorvaton is another thing, it totally make sense to me that China wants to copycat all the high tech stuff, and also, the counter massure that US took is totally reasonable. From the human species' point of view, it is fascinating.

pinkfoot 7y ago

5G patents by country… https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F8%2F9%2F3%2F9%2F20319398-1-eng-GB%2F20190415-5G-Key-patent-Hrz.png?source=nar-cms https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt... Answer: yes.

mhandley 7y ago

If you look at the top computer systems and networking conferences, you'll see an increasing fraction of the research is from the top Chinese universities. The best Chinese students used to go abroad for their PhD studies. In the last five years or so, this has significantly changed, and Chinese home-grown research is just as innovative as US or European research. I've no reason to believe that aerospace will be any different, except that the lead times are probably quite a bit longer.