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This is why people have religion. Regardless of your personal views on the fact, it's a darn good way to avoid getting depressed by this sort of nihilism. You

This is why people have religion. Regardless of your personal views on the fact, it's a darn good way to avoid getting depressed by this sort of nihilism. You believe the universe will go on; you'll see your family one day and spend eternity in paradise. You may think it's BS, but have to admit it doesn't really matter for most people, it still does the job.

NeoBasilisk 7y ago
As someone who has been on both sides of that belief, I can agree that it generally has a stabilizing effect on people's mental state. However, once you lose that belief, it is very difficult to make yourself believe it again. And probably even harder for people that never believed in the first place.
flatline 7y ago
And yet millennia of philosophy have also attempted to address it. Epicurus comes first to mind from the materialist camp. Religion is not the only source of solace for existential dread, there are more rationalist approaches that can be viable. I think these have been sufficiently overshadowed by religion that they are only recently re-entering the public discourse.
phkahler 7y ago
Another way to deal with nihilism is to embrace it. Once you accept that nothing matters, you can stop beating yourself up for mistakes and failures. You can strip the urgency from your goals. It allows you to proceed with outcome independence. This needs to be paired with some form of motivation too, but I think that's more up to the individual.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  > strip the urgency from your goals Exactly. I personally know people who have become despondent and given up on life. Maybe a few people will take advantage of total freedom to learn and do, but if we're being honest here, most will watch net flicks and eat potato chips. It is still a net positive for _most_ people.
  - kharak 7y ago
    This is me, up to certain a point. I workout regularly, get slowly better at my job, participate in social activities. Just focus on enjoying life and I do. Still, it's all utterly meaningless. Funny thing is, I'm quit sure that the lack of meaning is holding me back. Holding me back in the sense that my satisfaction with life and success within it could be better with the feeling of meaning in life. There are people who proclaim that death gives everything meaning. Nonsense, death neither gives nor takes meaning, it's as meaningless as eternal life. I'm an atheist to every religion I've ever encountered and couldn't imagine the existence of a god providing meaning, either. (I actually perceive that idea, meaning by higher power, to be even more absurd). I have the believe though, that the question for meaning is a side effect of having a modern life. Did ancient tribes people think about meaning or did they simply hunt, socialize and view the world as connected in everything (the natural view of the world, as children have it) and never ever even thing about the concept of meaning of life? There are still somewhat "natural" living tribes out there, did someone ask them that question? I'm really curious about their reaction and answer. Really, to me it seems, that the answer to the question about the meaning of life is to never ask it in the first place.
    - phkahler 7y ago
      If there is an answer, it is that you get to define your own meaning.
      - kharak 7y ago
        I read that often, also in this thread. But it isn't working for me. Meaning is not a rational concept, I guess it is a feeling. I say guess, because I've never experienced it. I only know, that the lack of meaning is a feeling. One day, I might stumble into a life where everything clicks together and the lack of meaning withers away. But that's not going to be a rational decision. "I conclude that this way of life is meaningful. 5 minutes later, I feel meaningful". Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
- thelazydogsback 7y ago
  > Another way to deal with nihilism is to embrace it. Once you accept that nothing matters, you can stop beating yourself up But because nothing (incl. consequences) matters, it can also be a path to sociopathy, especially if your nihilistic attitude has deprived you of a normal social outlet.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    That's certainly a hazard to look out for.
cortesoft 7y ago
See, I never got how religion solves the problem of 'life not having a meaning'... let's suppose that there is a god, he created everything, and he tells me my purpose is x... well, so what? Just because God created everything, does that mean his choice for meaning is the same as mine? I mean, my parents created me, and if they told me their idea for my purpose, it wouldn't make it mine. Same with eternal life... how does something without meaning extended forever suddenly have meaning? I guess I never got the connection with an omniscient creator and a feeing of having purpose. I have plenty of purpose; experiencing the universe, taking it all in, seeing what happens next, loving deeply, sharing joy, experiencing pain. So much to life.
- serpix 7y ago
  what if .. the story of there being a god separate from you is just a story. The nondual or advaita insight is that you are divine already, just pretending not to be. It goes deeper than that and should not be made another story but experienced yourself first. This was my own path to unshakeable faith, by own experience with the help of teachings and meditation as the beginning.
bigred100 7y ago
I’m not entirely sure if this characterization of religion makes sense.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  I'm not _entirely_ sure of most things, but am unsure how I am to reply with anything of substance if you don't give me a little more to engage with. _Why_ doesn't it make sense? I'm approaching it from a sociological point in this case, rather than a moral or theological one.
  - bigred100 7y ago
    Given my only exposure with any depth is Christianity (still superficial) I’m using this as my reference. If you read any of the really well-regarded spiritual authors (like the doctors of the church for example) you will read plenty about how your family (or you, of course) could easily be damned to hell. In fact, seeing relatives in hell is probably inevitable. Something even more discomforting to discuss is that, being that you’ve made it to heaven, your will is united to God’s and you would in fact marvel at God’s justice while you watch your relatives suffer in hell. Eg http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm It’s not clear to me that these are especially comforting things to think about, at least superficially.
solomontribe 7y ago
But aren't high IQ people predisposed to being atheist in the first place? I don't like working for adtech companies even when they pay me large sum of money for solving their technical problems. I am not motivated by money, I've been diagnosed with 150 IQ score when I was 19. I learned to speak very late and when I learned to write, I often wrote with both of my hands and swapping the hand out when I got tired of writing with one hand. My best time at school was finding a new benchmark every week and copying their handwriting so by the end of the weak, no one could figure out who exactly wrote that! Principal summoned me for swapping solution paper based on handwriting and I had to prove to him by writing in that handwriting that I didn't cheat. I was good at art but not good at music. I tried programming, I excelled at this stuff and then I moved on to CAD modeling which I found more statisfying but I was still getting inquiries based on my past performance at tech companies. I often feel I don't like using my intelligence. Yes but throw me in survival situation i am guaranteed to find solutions. The best thing I enjoyed working for any company was when I was under continuous threat of being fired if I didn't solve the technical challenges they were facing. Other than this, even the problems didn't give me any statisfaction, what did give me statisficaction was working under continuous threats + time constraints. Insults don't affect me, I don't assign any value to anything other say about me. I work for my own statisficaction. I had several girlfriends but things slowly faded and I ended up not seeing them anymore because I saw no point in maintaining relationships. My family is very religious yet I grew up to become athiest. I read various religious texts and arrived at the situation that it's designed to control people without use of sword

NeoBasilisk 7y ago

As someone who has been on both sides of that belief, I can agree that it generally has a stabilizing effect on people's mental state. However, once you lose that belief, it is very difficult to make yourself believe it again. And probably even harder for people that never believed in the first place.

flatline 7y ago

And yet millennia of philosophy have also attempted to address it. Epicurus comes first to mind from the materialist camp. Religion is not the only source of solace for existential dread, there are more rationalist approaches that can be viable. I think these have been sufficiently overshadowed by religion that they are only recently re-entering the public discourse.

phkahler 7y ago

Another way to deal with nihilism is to embrace it. Once you accept that nothing matters, you can stop beating yourself up for mistakes and failures. You can strip the urgency from your goals. It allows you to proceed with outcome independence. This needs to be paired with some form of motivation too, but I think that's more up to the individual.

big_chungus 7y ago
> strip the urgency from your goals Exactly. I personally know people who have become despondent and given up on life. Maybe a few people will take advantage of total freedom to learn and do, but if we're being honest here, most will watch net flicks and eat potato chips. It is still a net positive for _most_ people.
- kharak 7y ago
  This is me, up to certain a point. I workout regularly, get slowly better at my job, participate in social activities. Just focus on enjoying life and I do. Still, it's all utterly meaningless. Funny thing is, I'm quit sure that the lack of meaning is holding me back. Holding me back in the sense that my satisfaction with life and success within it could be better with the feeling of meaning in life. There are people who proclaim that death gives everything meaning. Nonsense, death neither gives nor takes meaning, it's as meaningless as eternal life. I'm an atheist to every religion I've ever encountered and couldn't imagine the existence of a god providing meaning, either. (I actually perceive that idea, meaning by higher power, to be even more absurd). I have the believe though, that the question for meaning is a side effect of having a modern life. Did ancient tribes people think about meaning or did they simply hunt, socialize and view the world as connected in everything (the natural view of the world, as children have it) and never ever even thing about the concept of meaning of life? There are still somewhat "natural" living tribes out there, did someone ask them that question? I'm really curious about their reaction and answer. Really, to me it seems, that the answer to the question about the meaning of life is to never ask it in the first place.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    If there is an answer, it is that you get to define your own meaning.
    - kharak 7y ago
      I read that often, also in this thread. But it isn't working for me. Meaning is not a rational concept, I guess it is a feeling. I say guess, because I've never experienced it. I only know, that the lack of meaning is a feeling. One day, I might stumble into a life where everything clicks together and the lack of meaning withers away. But that's not going to be a rational decision. "I conclude that this way of life is meaningful. 5 minutes later, I feel meaningful". Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
thelazydogsback 7y ago
> Another way to deal with nihilism is to embrace it. Once you accept that nothing matters, you can stop beating yourself up But because nothing (incl. consequences) matters, it can also be a path to sociopathy, especially if your nihilistic attitude has deprived you of a normal social outlet.
- phkahler 7y ago
  That's certainly a hazard to look out for.

cortesoft 7y ago

See, I never got how religion solves the problem of 'life not having a meaning'... let's suppose that there is a god, he created everything, and he tells me my purpose is x... well, so what? Just because God created everything, does that mean his choice for meaning is the same as mine? I mean, my parents created me, and if they told me their idea for my purpose, it wouldn't make it mine. Same with eternal life... how does something without meaning extended forever suddenly have meaning? I guess I never got the connection with an omniscient creator and a feeing of having purpose. I have plenty of purpose; experiencing the universe, taking it all in, seeing what happens next, loving deeply, sharing joy, experiencing pain. So much to life.

serpix 7y ago
what if .. the story of there being a god separate from you is just a story. The nondual or advaita insight is that you are divine already, just pretending not to be. It goes deeper than that and should not be made another story but experienced yourself first. This was my own path to unshakeable faith, by own experience with the help of teachings and meditation as the beginning.

bigred100 7y ago

I’m not entirely sure if this characterization of religion makes sense.

big_chungus 7y ago
I'm not _entirely_ sure of most things, but am unsure how I am to reply with anything of substance if you don't give me a little more to engage with. _Why_ doesn't it make sense? I'm approaching it from a sociological point in this case, rather than a moral or theological one.
- bigred100 7y ago
  Given my only exposure with any depth is Christianity (still superficial) I’m using this as my reference. If you read any of the really well-regarded spiritual authors (like the doctors of the church for example) you will read plenty about how your family (or you, of course) could easily be damned to hell. In fact, seeing relatives in hell is probably inevitable. Something even more discomforting to discuss is that, being that you’ve made it to heaven, your will is united to God’s and you would in fact marvel at God’s justice while you watch your relatives suffer in hell. Eg http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm It’s not clear to me that these are especially comforting things to think about, at least superficially.

solomontribe 7y ago

But aren't high IQ people predisposed to being atheist in the first place? I don't like working for adtech companies even when they pay me large sum of money for solving their technical problems. I am not motivated by money, I've been diagnosed with 150 IQ score when I was 19. I learned to speak very late and when I learned to write, I often wrote with both of my hands and swapping the hand out when I got tired of writing with one hand. My best time at school was finding a new benchmark every week and copying their handwriting so by the end of the weak, no one could figure out who exactly wrote that! Principal summoned me for swapping solution paper based on handwriting and I had to prove to him by writing in that handwriting that I didn't cheat. I was good at art but not good at music. I tried programming, I excelled at this stuff and then I moved on to CAD modeling which I found more statisfying but I was still getting inquiries based on my past performance at tech companies. I often feel I don't like using my intelligence. Yes but throw me in survival situation i am guaranteed to find solutions. The best thing I enjoyed working for any company was when I was under continuous threat of being fired if I didn't solve the technical challenges they were facing. Other than this, even the problems didn't give me any statisfaction, what did give me statisficaction was working under continuous threats + time constraints. Insults don't affect me, I don't assign any value to anything other say about me. I work for my own statisficaction. I had several girlfriends but things slowly faded and I ended up not seeing them anymore because I saw no point in maintaining relationships. My family is very religious yet I grew up to become athiest. I read various religious texts and arrived at the situation that it's designed to control people without use of sword