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Coming up with a fast charger is step one. Operating a charger network introduces its own real-world complexities that Tesla has had to face, but those other co

Coming up with a fast charger is step one. Operating a charger network introduces its own real-world complexities that Tesla has had to face, but those other companies did not. * chargers can malfunction. Tesla has a 24/7 phone support and will send a mobile roadside assistance truck to help you out if you’re stuck due to a non-functioning charger. Will those other companies do the same? * during peak hours popular chargers can get rather high demand. Tesla will send a valet to organize/maintain the line and allow owners to charge while absent (if they hand over the keys to the valet). Will ionity, etc. do the same? The operating company also has to be willing and able to tow offenders if they’re blocking the spots, preventing others from access. All solutions so far are people-intensive and capital-intensive. Do those other charger companies have enough financial strength to incur such operating expense?

clouddrover 7y ago
> will send a mobile roadside assistance truck Roadside assistance is hardly a novel feature of electric vehicles. The problems you're describing are all the problems of operating proprietary chargers with a proprietary plug. The advantage of CCS is that everyone can run their own chargers. McDonald's does: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/06/mcdonalds-in-sweden-serving-up-ev-chargers-with-its-big-macs/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/06/mcdonalds-in-sweden-ser... BP does: https://insideevs.com/news/365416/bp-chargemaster-first-150-kw-chargers-uk/ https://insideevs.com/news/365416/bp-chargemaster-first-150-... Shell does: https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/shell-new-electric-car-charging-gas-stations/ https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/shell-new-electric-car-chargi... Small operators do: https://electrek.co/2019/09/27/gas-station-removes-gas-pumps-for-electric-car-charging-stations/ https://electrek.co/2019/09/27/gas-station-removes-gas-pumps... Large operators do: https://ionity.eu/en/about.html https://ionity.eu/en/about.html Some operators are offering CCS charging for free: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/299467-volta-offers-free-ev-charging-with-caveats https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/299467-volta-offers-free... A single company trying to run a proprietary standard can't keep up with the investment being put into a common charging standard in the long run. Tesla would be better off switching to CCS everywhere and opening their chargers to all EVs.
- prostoalex 7y ago
  Anybody can run, but it remains to be seen if anybody has the right incentives to enforce. For Tesla maintaining a highly-available network of super chargers is business-critical. For McDonald’s it’s probably not. That’s what’s disappointing to me about current deployments by municipalities or retailers. It could be blocked for hours (by a non-EV, too), could be broken, and nobody cares. Volta is probably the least reliable network, as they still get paid for displaying ads whether or not the charger is operational. I agree that smaller operators have more skin in the game.
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    It doesn't remain to be seen. It's how the large operators operate. It's only going to get bigger and better year by year: https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/658/roll-out-shell-ionity-fast-charging-network-begins https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/658/roll-out-shell-ioni... Have a look at how it works at Circle K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVO6vqGOfGk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVO6vqGOfGk
    - prostoalex 7y ago
      It will be great if it works as forecasted, but let's remember that VW initial investment into Ionity happened as part of Dieselgate settlement, not due to a surefire business model and profitability of maintaining a large charging network. Is Ionity structured and capitalized in a way to ensure long-term success even if/when a few partners pull out a few years down the road? Tesla was notorious (still is) for flirting with bankruptcy as it burned through massive amount of capital, but at least internally it was understood that expanding the supercharger network would drive the car sales.
      - clouddrover 7y ago
        > Is Ionity structured and capitalized in a way to ensure long-term success even if/when a few partners pull out a few years down the road? It doesn't matter if Ionity fails. Other CCS networks already exist. You're stuck in this closed network perspective. It's like panicking over what will happen if AOL goes bust. The answer is: who cares? There are plenty of other internet providers. If it helps, here's a Tesla Model 3 and an Audi e-tron charging on an Ionity 350kw charger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrVZtzAqX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrVZtzAqX4 Ionity's open to everyone. When will Tesla open its chargers to other EVs?

clouddrover 7y ago

> will send a mobile roadside assistance truck Roadside assistance is hardly a novel feature of electric vehicles. The problems you're describing are all the problems of operating proprietary chargers with a proprietary plug. The advantage of CCS is that everyone can run their own chargers. McDonald's does: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/06/mcdonalds-in-sweden-serving-up-ev-chargers-with-its-big-macs/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/06/mcdonalds-in-sweden-ser... BP does: https://insideevs.com/news/365416/bp-chargemaster-first-150-kw-chargers-uk/ https://insideevs.com/news/365416/bp-chargemaster-first-150-... Shell does: https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/shell-new-electric-car-charging-gas-stations/ https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/shell-new-electric-car-chargi... Small operators do: https://electrek.co/2019/09/27/gas-station-removes-gas-pumps-for-electric-car-charging-stations/ https://electrek.co/2019/09/27/gas-station-removes-gas-pumps... Large operators do: https://ionity.eu/en/about.html https://ionity.eu/en/about.html Some operators are offering CCS charging for free: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/299467-volta-offers-free-ev-charging-with-caveats https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/299467-volta-offers-free... A single company trying to run a proprietary standard can't keep up with the investment being put into a common charging standard in the long run. Tesla would be better off switching to CCS everywhere and opening their chargers to all EVs.

prostoalex 7y ago
Anybody can run, but it remains to be seen if anybody has the right incentives to enforce. For Tesla maintaining a highly-available network of super chargers is business-critical. For McDonald’s it’s probably not. That’s what’s disappointing to me about current deployments by municipalities or retailers. It could be blocked for hours (by a non-EV, too), could be broken, and nobody cares. Volta is probably the least reliable network, as they still get paid for displaying ads whether or not the charger is operational. I agree that smaller operators have more skin in the game.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  It doesn't remain to be seen. It's how the large operators operate. It's only going to get bigger and better year by year: https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/658/roll-out-shell-ionity-fast-charging-network-begins https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/658/roll-out-shell-ioni... Have a look at how it works at Circle K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVO6vqGOfGk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVO6vqGOfGk
  - prostoalex 7y ago
    It will be great if it works as forecasted, but let's remember that VW initial investment into Ionity happened as part of Dieselgate settlement, not due to a surefire business model and profitability of maintaining a large charging network. Is Ionity structured and capitalized in a way to ensure long-term success even if/when a few partners pull out a few years down the road? Tesla was notorious (still is) for flirting with bankruptcy as it burned through massive amount of capital, but at least internally it was understood that expanding the supercharger network would drive the car sales.
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      > Is Ionity structured and capitalized in a way to ensure long-term success even if/when a few partners pull out a few years down the road? It doesn't matter if Ionity fails. Other CCS networks already exist. You're stuck in this closed network perspective. It's like panicking over what will happen if AOL goes bust. The answer is: who cares? There are plenty of other internet providers. If it helps, here's a Tesla Model 3 and an Audi e-tron charging on an Ionity 350kw charger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrVZtzAqX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrVZtzAqX4 Ionity's open to everyone. When will Tesla open its chargers to other EVs?