2 ms·

The issue as I see it is that the people claiming to clean house seem to be incapable of following their own rules for cleaning house. Given my biases this lea

The issue as I see it is that the people claiming to clean house seem to be incapable of following their own rules for cleaning house. Given my biases this leaves me suspecting that this is one corrupt faction trying to oust the other corrupt faction.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Even if it is, the solution isn't to keep the currently-entrenched corrupt faction in power, right?
- ticviking 7y ago
  I'm not going to support any efforts that involve blatantly ignoring the rules. I fully support the House either initiating impeachment under their existing rules OR changing the rules to align with the procedure they have chosen to use. A significant amount of how we got into this situation is because the institutions of our republic have become far too tolerant of rule-bending in favor of those who hold positions.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Perhaps. But it's worth noting there's a reason the Constitution is flexible on issues such as justification for impeachment. While law is not a formal system, a variant of Gödel's incompleteness theorem likely still applies (i.e. "There's a way to ruin the country without breaking any laws").
    - ticviking 7y ago
      Good point. That is a lot of why I'd be okay if the thing had a vote before the full house. What I'm seeing though is a pattern of flexibility that benefits the institution over individuals. This is horrifying at the local police department level, where we time and again bad actors protected to protect the department, or police union. Same thing with prosecutors offices, etc. Seeing that pattern targeting the executive of our country is worrying. I'm also really sympathetic to the argument that the white house has advanced about due process. This is particularly important precisely because Trump is so obviously corrupt and self-serving. If we can't do it right when it's obvious how can we do it right against someone sneaker?
      - crooked-v 7y ago
        > That is a lot of why I'd be okay if the thing had a vote before the full house A vote before the full House is literally part of the process for submitting articles of impeachment to the Senate.

shadowgovt 7y ago

Even if it is, the solution isn't to keep the currently-entrenched corrupt faction in power, right?

ticviking 7y ago
I'm not going to support any efforts that involve blatantly ignoring the rules. I fully support the House either initiating impeachment under their existing rules OR changing the rules to align with the procedure they have chosen to use. A significant amount of how we got into this situation is because the institutions of our republic have become far too tolerant of rule-bending in favor of those who hold positions.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Perhaps. But it's worth noting there's a reason the Constitution is flexible on issues such as justification for impeachment. While law is not a formal system, a variant of Gödel's incompleteness theorem likely still applies (i.e. "There's a way to ruin the country without breaking any laws").
  - ticviking 7y ago
    Good point. That is a lot of why I'd be okay if the thing had a vote before the full house. What I'm seeing though is a pattern of flexibility that benefits the institution over individuals. This is horrifying at the local police department level, where we time and again bad actors protected to protect the department, or police union. Same thing with prosecutors offices, etc. Seeing that pattern targeting the executive of our country is worrying. I'm also really sympathetic to the argument that the white house has advanced about due process. This is particularly important precisely because Trump is so obviously corrupt and self-serving. If we can't do it right when it's obvious how can we do it right against someone sneaker?
    - crooked-v 7y ago
      > That is a lot of why I'd be okay if the thing had a vote before the full house A vote before the full House is literally part of the process for submitting articles of impeachment to the Senate.