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>Sure, but so are lots of things. It's just a cultural artifact of the west's love and expectation of violent solutions to conflict that we glorify this activit

>Sure, but so are lots of things. It's just a cultural artifact of the west's love and expectation of violent solutions to conflict that we glorify this activity over others. For example, a game of Go is surely a conflict between two people, but unlike a game of Overwatch or the like it involves a lot fewer guns, bombs, and patchy plots about world governments authorizing unilateral violence. I don't think this really has anything to do with the west. Non western cultures have been producing violent art before the west even existed, and if you look at modern non-western movies and games, they aren't less likely to involve violence. As for Go, people in countries that play Go also play plenty of games that are violent, and plenty of people in the west play Checkers.

KirinDave 7y ago
I can't work out what this post is saying. What do you mean? My point about Go was that Go is still a game of conflict, but it's not a game where we murder one another or try to anthropomorphize the pieces to make it more like actual killing.
- learc83 7y ago
  > It's just a cultural artifact of the west's love and expectation of violent solutions to conflict that we glorify this activity over others. The implication to this sentence is that the west is unique in this regard. The only non-violent exemplar game you presented being a non-western game strengthens this implication. The point of my post was to make an argument against that suggestion. If you didn't mean to imply that, then it really has no point. However, if that was the case why mention the west at all? Particularly when the OP gave a non-western example (Mario) in the first place.
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    > The implication to this sentence is that the west is unique in this regard. The only non-violent exemplar game you presented being a non-western game strengthens this implication. Unique? No. Distinct in character, yes. > The only non-violent exemplar game you presented being a non-western game strengthens this implication. Minecraft. Night in the Woods. Slenderman. Kerbal Space Program. SpaceChem, TIS-80, InfiniMiner, InfiniFactory, a huge portion of Stellaris's gameplay. Untitled Goose Game. Online Go. Candy Crush. Many many subgames in Roblox. Can you stop this line of questioning now? It's boring.
    - learc83 7y ago
      >Unique? No. Distinct in character, yes. So not unique. But actually unique? >Minecraft. Night in the Woods. Slenderman. Kerbal Space Program. SpaceChem, TIS-80, InfiniMiner, InfiniFactory, a huge portion of Stellaris's gameplay. Untitled Goose Game. Online Go. Candy Crush. Many many subgames in Roblox. Had you used those examples in your original post, then it would have had less of that implication. >Can you stop this line of questioning now? It's boring. If you weren't implying that the west has a "love and expectation of violent solutions" while the rest of the world does not, or that the west has more of a "love and expectation of violent solutions" than the rest of the world, then just say so. Or you are free to stop responding if you're bored. I won't be offended.
      - KirinDave 7y ago
        > >Unique? No. Distinct in character, yes. > So not unique. But actually unique? I don't know what you think "distinct" means but it's obviously different from the sense I'm using. > Had you used those examples in your original post, then it would have had less of that implication. I've had several threads about this. Sorry I don't replicated every aspect of the entire conversation for your convenience. Most folks aren't bringing the "aren't you a japanophile insulting my gloriously progressive culture" angle to the table, so I haven't felt the need to specifically defend against that ridiculous argument in every post. > If you weren't implying that the west has a "love and expectation of violent solutions" while the rest of the world does not, or that the west has more of a "love and expectation of violent solutions" than the rest of the world, then just say so. Perhaps being less defensive would be more productive in the future. Sadly, I'm taking your offer to ignore you from here on out. Thanks for reminding me why this place is such a waste of time.
        learc83 7y ago
        >Most folks aren't bringing the "aren't you a japanophile insulting my gloriously progressive culture" angle to the table. Wow maybe you should tone it down a bit. You've actually manage to use an ad hominem in an attempt to accuse me of the of the same. Also notice that there's another person who had the same impression I did, so if you didn't mean to leave that impression, you should probably edit your post. If you did, then you shouldn't be upset when someone offers a counterpoint. >Perhaps being less defensive would be more productive in the future. Sadly, I'm taking your offer to ignore you from here on out. Except for this one last attempt to get the final word in right? If you're going to ignore me, ignore me, you don't need to keep making one last reply telling me that you're going to do it.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  So? There are more abstract Western games like checkers, and plenty of Chinese games and media that's violent. The idea that this is specific to the West just comes across as remarkably naive. Do you really need someone to list all the examples of violent Eastern media and games?
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    It's not suggesting that western culture is unique in glorifying specific types of violence. It's distinct in how it presents it and normalizes it to children.
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      > It's distinct in how it presents it and normalizes it to children. Bullshit. You think other cultures don't normalize violence? Please, violence has been normalized since there were people. Certainly since we've had states, those states have had an interest in promoting the glory of fighting, indoctrinating the youth and such. The West is no outlier in this regard.
      - KirinDave 7y ago
        > Bullshit. You think other cultures don't normalize violence? Please, violence has been normalized since there were people. Really? Are you American? Are you aware about how much of the entertainment you consumed as a child is forbidden for children in other countries? Specifically because of violence? If not, you should consider investigating.
        TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Perhaps you should consider investigating some other cultures. So far in your responses to me, to gird your argument that the West is unique, you compared America to...the UK. Which is, last I checked, also part of the West. Are you not aware that anime for boys in Japan is frequently censored when it comes stateside? Like the infamous 'finger guns' from Yugioh? Is Japan another culture that uniquely indoctrinates its children with violence then? A whole lot of those 80's and 90's violent video games were from Japan, after all. I blew up a lot of people and/or robots playing Megaman and Contra.
brownbat 7y ago
>> It's just a cultural artifact of the west's love and expectation of violent solutions > I don't think this really has anything to do with the west. I grew up (in the West) watching HK action films and samurai movies, so I hear you. It's exasperating to have to continually point out that fantasy and reality are different things when others stubbornly refuse to accept that. Exemplified by Tarantino losing it after probably the millionth time he was grilled about violence in media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7k4GQSGvx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7k4GQSGvx8
- KirinDave 7y ago
  Why do you think this is exclusively about the west? I pointed to my culture's unique flavor of violence loving, but I didn't suggest that video games were causal nor did I suggest that we were unique, merely distinct.

KirinDave 7y ago

I can't work out what this post is saying. What do you mean? My point about Go was that Go is still a game of conflict, but it's not a game where we murder one another or try to anthropomorphize the pieces to make it more like actual killing.

learc83 7y ago
> It's just a cultural artifact of the west's love and expectation of violent solutions to conflict that we glorify this activity over others. The implication to this sentence is that the west is unique in this regard. The only non-violent exemplar game you presented being a non-western game strengthens this implication. The point of my post was to make an argument against that suggestion. If you didn't mean to imply that, then it really has no point. However, if that was the case why mention the west at all? Particularly when the OP gave a non-western example (Mario) in the first place.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  > The implication to this sentence is that the west is unique in this regard. The only non-violent exemplar game you presented being a non-western game strengthens this implication. Unique? No. Distinct in character, yes. > The only non-violent exemplar game you presented being a non-western game strengthens this implication. Minecraft. Night in the Woods. Slenderman. Kerbal Space Program. SpaceChem, TIS-80, InfiniMiner, InfiniFactory, a huge portion of Stellaris's gameplay. Untitled Goose Game. Online Go. Candy Crush. Many many subgames in Roblox. Can you stop this line of questioning now? It's boring.
  - learc83 7y ago
    >Unique? No. Distinct in character, yes. So not unique. But actually unique? >Minecraft. Night in the Woods. Slenderman. Kerbal Space Program. SpaceChem, TIS-80, InfiniMiner, InfiniFactory, a huge portion of Stellaris's gameplay. Untitled Goose Game. Online Go. Candy Crush. Many many subgames in Roblox. Had you used those examples in your original post, then it would have had less of that implication. >Can you stop this line of questioning now? It's boring. If you weren't implying that the west has a "love and expectation of violent solutions" while the rest of the world does not, or that the west has more of a "love and expectation of violent solutions" than the rest of the world, then just say so. Or you are free to stop responding if you're bored. I won't be offended.
    - KirinDave 7y ago
      > >Unique? No. Distinct in character, yes. > So not unique. But actually unique? I don't know what you think "distinct" means but it's obviously different from the sense I'm using. > Had you used those examples in your original post, then it would have had less of that implication. I've had several threads about this. Sorry I don't replicated every aspect of the entire conversation for your convenience. Most folks aren't bringing the "aren't you a japanophile insulting my gloriously progressive culture" angle to the table, so I haven't felt the need to specifically defend against that ridiculous argument in every post. > If you weren't implying that the west has a "love and expectation of violent solutions" while the rest of the world does not, or that the west has more of a "love and expectation of violent solutions" than the rest of the world, then just say so. Perhaps being less defensive would be more productive in the future. Sadly, I'm taking your offer to ignore you from here on out. Thanks for reminding me why this place is such a waste of time.
      - learc83 7y ago
        >Most folks aren't bringing the "aren't you a japanophile insulting my gloriously progressive culture" angle to the table. Wow maybe you should tone it down a bit. You've actually manage to use an ad hominem in an attempt to accuse me of the of the same. Also notice that there's another person who had the same impression I did, so if you didn't mean to leave that impression, you should probably edit your post. If you did, then you shouldn't be upset when someone offers a counterpoint. >Perhaps being less defensive would be more productive in the future. Sadly, I'm taking your offer to ignore you from here on out. Except for this one last attempt to get the final word in right? If you're going to ignore me, ignore me, you don't need to keep making one last reply telling me that you're going to do it.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
So? There are more abstract Western games like checkers, and plenty of Chinese games and media that's violent. The idea that this is specific to the West just comes across as remarkably naive. Do you really need someone to list all the examples of violent Eastern media and games?
- KirinDave 7y ago
  It's not suggesting that western culture is unique in glorifying specific types of violence. It's distinct in how it presents it and normalizes it to children.
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    > It's distinct in how it presents it and normalizes it to children. Bullshit. You think other cultures don't normalize violence? Please, violence has been normalized since there were people. Certainly since we've had states, those states have had an interest in promoting the glory of fighting, indoctrinating the youth and such. The West is no outlier in this regard.
    - KirinDave 7y ago
      > Bullshit. You think other cultures don't normalize violence? Please, violence has been normalized since there were people. Really? Are you American? Are you aware about how much of the entertainment you consumed as a child is forbidden for children in other countries? Specifically because of violence? If not, you should consider investigating.
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Perhaps you should consider investigating some other cultures. So far in your responses to me, to gird your argument that the West is unique, you compared America to...the UK. Which is, last I checked, also part of the West. Are you not aware that anime for boys in Japan is frequently censored when it comes stateside? Like the infamous 'finger guns' from Yugioh? Is Japan another culture that uniquely indoctrinates its children with violence then? A whole lot of those 80's and 90's violent video games were from Japan, after all. I blew up a lot of people and/or robots playing Megaman and Contra.

brownbat 7y ago

>> It's just a cultural artifact of the west's love and expectation of violent solutions > I don't think this really has anything to do with the west. I grew up (in the West) watching HK action films and samurai movies, so I hear you. It's exasperating to have to continually point out that fantasy and reality are different things when others stubbornly refuse to accept that. Exemplified by Tarantino losing it after probably the millionth time he was grilled about violence in media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7k4GQSGvx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7k4GQSGvx8

KirinDave 7y ago
Why do you think this is exclusively about the west? I pointed to my culture's unique flavor of violence loving, but I didn't suggest that video games were causal nor did I suggest that we were unique, merely distinct.