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>Violence is entertaining on some level... a part of human psychology So is sex, but I'd wager there are people who would be against schoolkids playing video g

>Violence is entertaining on some level... a part of human psychology So is sex, but I'd wager there are people who would be against schoolkids playing video games simulating it. I think that's the same sort of argument that HN user 'kirindave' is making with respect to violence. I make video games. Violent ones. But it's fair for people to question whether we, as an industry, can come up with something other than death as a metaphor for success. Particularly as we try to grow the tent and move games from being just video games to more, sort of, cultural artifacts.

KirinDave 7y ago
> I think that's the same sort of argument that HN user 'kirindave' is making with respect to violence. Not quite, but it is an interesting one. Folks are very comfortable with games depicting repeated fatal violence. Would they feel the same way about a game involving repeated rape? Surely not, at least in the US, surely?! But then again, Pick Up Artist games that evaluate your ability to emotionally manipulate people into sex are popular enough that they've broken into the world of big youtubers and The reason these are different is because of the way our culture normalizes conflict and normalizes different kinds of dominance. We've seen games that challenge this (even when they're by people who clearly aren't). Night in the Woods, Slenderman, Minecraft & Roblox, every racing game, Kerbal Space Program and Untitled Goose Game? All of these games are famous and made a major impact on the gaming social structure and they don't focus on pulling triggers or capturing points.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Minecraft involves hiding from things trying to kill you at night. Roblox has guns and violence, it's just not bloody or realistically depicted. It's cartoonist violence. Slenderman is a survival horror game so by definition it's violent. Mario Kart takes the fun of racing games to a higher level by enabling you to attack other racers with weapons. Kerbal Space Program is a good counter example. It's a sim game. I think sim games are fun. But if I'm with a large group of friends I'd pick Smash Bros. over Kerbal.
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    > Minecraft involves hiding from things trying to kill you at night. The most popular version is on peaceful by default. > Roblox has guns and violence, it's just not bloody or realistically depicted. It's cartoonist violence. Sure, but for every conflict minigame there is a game where you ride a dragon collecting rainbows. The first goal is to build and explore; physical conflict exists as a consequence of other decisions, not as a foregone conclusion. > Slenderman is a survival horror game so by definition it's violent. Not really, it's a game about terror. There is very little human-vs-human commentary. > Kerbal Space Program is a good counter example. It's a sim game. I think sim games are fun. But if I'm with a large group of friends I'd pick Smash Bros. over Kerbal. Sure, but even Smash is such a watered down experience of violence. And it feels like that shows in its community which is MUCH less awful than more realistic and serious fighting options.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
There are absolutely many video games that are non-violent. But yes, people do like violence too. And that's okay. > Particularly as we try to grow the tent and move games from being just video games to more, sort of, cultural artifacts. I don't want to be a dick, but, like, do you not read books or watch TV or movies or anything? Because those areas are all chock full of violence. Particularly if you look at movies, what are the biggest hits? Action-adventure flicks, like the Marvel movies, right? And yet nobody says "well if movies want to be cultural artifacts, they really have to move on past this sort of thing..." with a straight face. As I was working on my computer tonight my wife was watching Good Omens on TV, nice little miniseries, and while I wouldn't normally categorize it as a particularly violent show, there's still kids stabbing dudes with a flaming sword, demons murdering other demons, etc. Like, I just don't know how someone can be aware of the fact that violence is pervasive in all sorts of media, and then seriously suggest that video games have to somehow move past that to match those forms of media. Because they already have non-violent games as well, so you can't actually be asking for that, that would make even less sense.

KirinDave 7y ago

> I think that's the same sort of argument that HN user 'kirindave' is making with respect to violence. Not quite, but it is an interesting one. Folks are very comfortable with games depicting repeated fatal violence. Would they feel the same way about a game involving repeated rape? Surely not, at least in the US, surely?! But then again, Pick Up Artist games that evaluate your ability to emotionally manipulate people into sex are popular enough that they've broken into the world of big youtubers and The reason these are different is because of the way our culture normalizes conflict and normalizes different kinds of dominance. We've seen games that challenge this (even when they're by people who clearly aren't). Night in the Woods, Slenderman, Minecraft & Roblox, every racing game, Kerbal Space Program and Untitled Goose Game? All of these games are famous and made a major impact on the gaming social structure and they don't focus on pulling triggers or capturing points.

chrisco255 7y ago
Minecraft involves hiding from things trying to kill you at night. Roblox has guns and violence, it's just not bloody or realistically depicted. It's cartoonist violence. Slenderman is a survival horror game so by definition it's violent. Mario Kart takes the fun of racing games to a higher level by enabling you to attack other racers with weapons. Kerbal Space Program is a good counter example. It's a sim game. I think sim games are fun. But if I'm with a large group of friends I'd pick Smash Bros. over Kerbal.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  > Minecraft involves hiding from things trying to kill you at night. The most popular version is on peaceful by default. > Roblox has guns and violence, it's just not bloody or realistically depicted. It's cartoonist violence. Sure, but for every conflict minigame there is a game where you ride a dragon collecting rainbows. The first goal is to build and explore; physical conflict exists as a consequence of other decisions, not as a foregone conclusion. > Slenderman is a survival horror game so by definition it's violent. Not really, it's a game about terror. There is very little human-vs-human commentary. > Kerbal Space Program is a good counter example. It's a sim game. I think sim games are fun. But if I'm with a large group of friends I'd pick Smash Bros. over Kerbal. Sure, but even Smash is such a watered down experience of violence. And it feels like that shows in its community which is MUCH less awful than more realistic and serious fighting options.

TulliusCicero 7y ago

There are absolutely many video games that are non-violent. But yes, people do like violence too. And that's okay. > Particularly as we try to grow the tent and move games from being just video games to more, sort of, cultural artifacts. I don't want to be a dick, but, like, do you not read books or watch TV or movies or anything? Because those areas are all chock full of violence. Particularly if you look at movies, what are the biggest hits? Action-adventure flicks, like the Marvel movies, right? And yet nobody says "well if movies want to be cultural artifacts, they really have to move on past this sort of thing..." with a straight face. As I was working on my computer tonight my wife was watching Good Omens on TV, nice little miniseries, and while I wouldn't normally categorize it as a particularly violent show, there's still kids stabbing dudes with a flaming sword, demons murdering other demons, etc. Like, I just don't know how someone can be aware of the fact that violence is pervasive in all sorts of media, and then seriously suggest that video games have to somehow move past that to match those forms of media. Because they already have non-violent games as well, so you can't actually be asking for that, that would make even less sense.