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This is my issue with Linux, though, despite having a dev VM environment of several distros. There are a metric f*ckton of Linux distros out there and, for ever

This is my issue with Linux, though, despite having a dev VM environment of several distros. There are a metric f*ckton of Linux distros out there and, for every one of them that fixes the problems mentioned in one breath, they break or ignore a whole litany of other things. When I first started with Linux, it was pretty much Red Hat or bust and that was a pain but you knew what you were getting into. Now, it's nearly impossible to know what a lot of the differences are between all the different distros and which one may or may not work for your particular situation. Worse yet, it's now happened to me twice where I've set up a distro, spent the time to get it mostly working, and then, after using it for a few weeks, there's some annoyance or hardware issue that I can't resolve that is resolved in another distro. So I install the next one, get it mostly working, and then run into some other non-trivial annoyance or issue. Repeat, ad nauseam. Linux, to me, is still very much a tinkerer's OS. If you don't have the time to tinker and get things working and just want to get things done, Linux is not the way to go.

boomboomsubban 7y ago
> Worse yet, it's now happened to me twice where I've set up a distro, spent the time to get it mostly working, and then, after using it for a few weeks, there's some annoyance or hardware issue that I can't resolve that is resolved in another distro A problem should only be unfixable without distro hopping if it requires a newer kernel or some other updated software. Even then, you can usually opt into a newer kernel and fix it in whatever distro you were running. So a rolling release is unlikely to face this issue, or if you check your hardware compatibility before installing. Generally though, Linux is Linux, and troubleshooting would solve these problems.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  >Generally though, Linux is Linux, and troubleshooting would solve these problems. Sure... but, to me, troubleshooting is tinkering. I don't want to have to troubleshoot my input device because it suddenly changes after an install or kernel update. Yes, I know that I can solve these problems but I don't want to have to do it all the time.
  - Nursie 7y ago
    The idea that this is frequent or as arduous as it has been in the past really is an outdated trope. For the most part it just works. More so than windows in my recent experience.
    - dkonofalski 7y ago
      It's really not. I think you're giving Linux far too much credit. If it really did "just work" and was that easy, you'd see way more computers in the wild using it. It's literally a free alternative that can be installed on any computer. The two biggest barriers to adoption are non-existent with Linux and yet it still has a minuscule user base comparatively. Unless you don't exclude servers, Linux doesn't "just work" for most people.
      - Nursie 7y ago
        And I think you're conflating market share with how well something works. > If it really did "just work" and was that easy, you'd see way more computers in the wild using it. I encounter a number every day, in software engineering. For non-technical users installing an operating system is beyond what most can comprehend anyway. I'd wager the vast majority of hardware never sees an OS change in its life. Add on that desktop linux is not supported by most games and you've more or less excluded the semi-technical market too. That easily accounts for a small user base regardless of how well it works. And if you take into account what people use it for - software development largely, in my experience - it seems natural that it has a smaller user base. > Unless you don't exclude servers, Linux doesn't "just work" for most people. You haven't really shown that, just a small market share.
        dkonofalski 7y ago
        I don't understand the point you're making here. You initially said that Linux being arduous is an outdated trope and then admitted that the only people you see using Linux are software engineers and that non-technical users can't even comprehend the install. Who is Linux non-arduous for, then, except technical users and software engineers? Was your argument meant to apply to only the technical users because that wasn't clear, if that's the case.
fud_as_always 7y ago
> Fud fud fud fud fud Fud, fud, fud fud fud fud FUD fud fud fud fud. Fud fud fud fud f*d fud Fux fud fud fud fud, fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud, fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud. Fud Fud fud fud fud Fud, fud fud fud fud Fud Fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud. Fud, fu'd fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud [. . .] It's not like things just work on Windows or Mac either. I use all 3 very regularly for many purposes and the annoyance rate for things like hardware is roughly the same on all of them. With Linux, I can at least get a desktop that behaves like I want it to and a package manager that handles _all_ updates: kernel, browser, CLI tools, etc. Why don't you just let other people form their own opinions instead of poisoning the discussion with this nonsense?
computerex 7y ago
> Linux, to me, is still very much a tinkerer's OS. If you don't have the time to tinker and get things working and just want to get things done, Linux is not the way to go. Completely disagree with you. There are many fully featured desktop environments that are as feature rich as Windows or OSX. Cinnamon, elementary OS, Pop_OS are just three off the top of my head. And hardware support has gotten amazing since 2012 and onwards. I use a flavor of linux on a few chromebooks and have used it on several laptops from brands like Apple, Dell, Acer, Lenovo, MSI as my primary OS since 2012 and haven't had any notable hardware issues. Things simply work out of the box. Can you be more specific about what issues you experienced? When was it that you had these issues? I am having a hard time believing you, because my personal experience has been so positive.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  And I'm having a hard time believing you because the hardware support for the MacBook trackpad has been abysmal on Linux in multiple flavors. Someone else in this thread mentioned support for mouse scroll speed and that's definitely one that I've run into and had to use workarounds to get to a comfortable place. I also need to use a Wacom tablet that should have 100% support on Linux because it's at least 8 years old that doesn't work properly as an input device. I've had issues with support for wireless cards, peripherals like printers, and even support for things that worked at one point in one flavor that didn't work in another. I'm glad that you've had a great experience but I can assure you that it's less common than you're making it out to be. And this doesn't even begin to get into the issues that aren't really the fault of any one Linux distro (software availability, for example) but that are just a side-effect of Linux not being a popular desktop OS, regardless of the flavor. Linux can be used as a primary driver in certain cases and I'm sure that some of those cases also happened without any kind of hardware issues. I just don't think that's common nor do I think it's enough to recommend it as a primary driver for anyone that's not a tinkerer.
  - computerex 7y ago
    You should try a modern distribution like cinnamon. I too have a wacom tablet and it works out of the box without requiring any driver installation whatsoever.

boomboomsubban 7y ago

> Worse yet, it's now happened to me twice where I've set up a distro, spent the time to get it mostly working, and then, after using it for a few weeks, there's some annoyance or hardware issue that I can't resolve that is resolved in another distro A problem should only be unfixable without distro hopping if it requires a newer kernel or some other updated software. Even then, you can usually opt into a newer kernel and fix it in whatever distro you were running. So a rolling release is unlikely to face this issue, or if you check your hardware compatibility before installing. Generally though, Linux is Linux, and troubleshooting would solve these problems.

dkonofalski 7y ago
>Generally though, Linux is Linux, and troubleshooting would solve these problems. Sure... but, to me, troubleshooting is tinkering. I don't want to have to troubleshoot my input device because it suddenly changes after an install or kernel update. Yes, I know that I can solve these problems but I don't want to have to do it all the time.
- Nursie 7y ago
  The idea that this is frequent or as arduous as it has been in the past really is an outdated trope. For the most part it just works. More so than windows in my recent experience.
  - dkonofalski 7y ago
    It's really not. I think you're giving Linux far too much credit. If it really did "just work" and was that easy, you'd see way more computers in the wild using it. It's literally a free alternative that can be installed on any computer. The two biggest barriers to adoption are non-existent with Linux and yet it still has a minuscule user base comparatively. Unless you don't exclude servers, Linux doesn't "just work" for most people.
    - Nursie 7y ago
      And I think you're conflating market share with how well something works. > If it really did "just work" and was that easy, you'd see way more computers in the wild using it. I encounter a number every day, in software engineering. For non-technical users installing an operating system is beyond what most can comprehend anyway. I'd wager the vast majority of hardware never sees an OS change in its life. Add on that desktop linux is not supported by most games and you've more or less excluded the semi-technical market too. That easily accounts for a small user base regardless of how well it works. And if you take into account what people use it for - software development largely, in my experience - it seems natural that it has a smaller user base. > Unless you don't exclude servers, Linux doesn't "just work" for most people. You haven't really shown that, just a small market share.
      - dkonofalski 7y ago
        I don't understand the point you're making here. You initially said that Linux being arduous is an outdated trope and then admitted that the only people you see using Linux are software engineers and that non-technical users can't even comprehend the install. Who is Linux non-arduous for, then, except technical users and software engineers? Was your argument meant to apply to only the technical users because that wasn't clear, if that's the case.

fud_as_always 7y ago

> Fud fud fud fud fud Fud, fud, fud fud fud fud FUD fud fud fud fud. Fud fud fud fud f*d fud Fux fud fud fud fud, fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud, fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud. Fud Fud fud fud fud Fud, fud fud fud fud Fud Fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud. Fud, fu'd fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud [. . .] It's not like things just work on Windows or Mac either. I use all 3 very regularly for many purposes and the annoyance rate for things like hardware is roughly the same on all of them. With Linux, I can at least get a desktop that behaves like I want it to and a package manager that handles _all_ updates: kernel, browser, CLI tools, etc. Why don't you just let other people form their own opinions instead of poisoning the discussion with this nonsense?

computerex 7y ago

> Linux, to me, is still very much a tinkerer's OS. If you don't have the time to tinker and get things working and just want to get things done, Linux is not the way to go. Completely disagree with you. There are many fully featured desktop environments that are as feature rich as Windows or OSX. Cinnamon, elementary OS, Pop_OS are just three off the top of my head. And hardware support has gotten amazing since 2012 and onwards. I use a flavor of linux on a few chromebooks and have used it on several laptops from brands like Apple, Dell, Acer, Lenovo, MSI as my primary OS since 2012 and haven't had any notable hardware issues. Things simply work out of the box. Can you be more specific about what issues you experienced? When was it that you had these issues? I am having a hard time believing you, because my personal experience has been so positive.

dkonofalski 7y ago
And I'm having a hard time believing you because the hardware support for the MacBook trackpad has been abysmal on Linux in multiple flavors. Someone else in this thread mentioned support for mouse scroll speed and that's definitely one that I've run into and had to use workarounds to get to a comfortable place. I also need to use a Wacom tablet that should have 100% support on Linux because it's at least 8 years old that doesn't work properly as an input device. I've had issues with support for wireless cards, peripherals like printers, and even support for things that worked at one point in one flavor that didn't work in another. I'm glad that you've had a great experience but I can assure you that it's less common than you're making it out to be. And this doesn't even begin to get into the issues that aren't really the fault of any one Linux distro (software availability, for example) but that are just a side-effect of Linux not being a popular desktop OS, regardless of the flavor. Linux can be used as a primary driver in certain cases and I'm sure that some of those cases also happened without any kind of hardware issues. I just don't think that's common nor do I think it's enough to recommend it as a primary driver for anyone that's not a tinkerer.
- computerex 7y ago
  You should try a modern distribution like cinnamon. I too have a wacom tablet and it works out of the box without requiring any driver installation whatsoever.