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We are talking about current day and there is a world of difference between the shitshow in the US and straight evil going on in China.

by ivalm 7y ago

curiousgal 7y ago
OP seemed to suggest that business should be conducted with ethical entities. My point was that the U.S. itself is not so and thus his point being null.
- kebman 7y ago
  I understand what you're saying, though it's still whataboutism that tries to compare apples to pears. The USA essentially still cares about your privacy and individual rights. China doesn't. In the USA, where there are infractions on privacy (and sadly there are some), it can be openly criticised, discussed and possibly changed democratically. In China that's simply not the case.
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    This would be more convincing if Snowden has never spoken up. But my assumption nowadays is that the US government (and many others) are looking at essentially anyone of interest to them. We're living in a golden era of surveillance. It's never been so cheap to surveil so many people.
    - kebman 7y ago
      True that, but... You can do it too! :D I'm sure most people in here are acquainted with the graph database. Or with just about any tool to scrape the net for info. I'm just surprised more people aren't doing it. After all, it's a great way to keep tabs on your local politicians, investors and your neighbour's cat. Come on guys, let's party like it's DDR!
- ivalm 7y ago
  I think it is a matter of degree. There is a certain degree of shadiness that is acceptable (most of the world) and certain that should not be acceptable (China, saudi Arabia, etc). There is no moral equivalence between the US and China.
  - curiousgal 7y ago
    > There is no moral equivalence between the US and China. There certainly is one if you ask one of the victims of foreign U.S. policy. My point is, there will always be a perspective from which saying "Don't do business with evil" includes the U.S.
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    In terms of foreign policy, you're right, but not in the way you think. American foreign policy has been 100x as evil as Chinese foreign policy for a long time. The US government invaded Iraq based on a lie, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. That's just one of many truly evil things the US government has done abroad recently.

We are talking about current day and there is a world of difference between the shitshow in the US and straight evil going on in China.

by ivalm 7y ago

We are talking about current day and there is a world of difference between the shitshow in the US and straight evil going on in China.

curiousgal 7y ago

OP seemed to suggest that business should be conducted with ethical entities. My point was that the U.S. itself is not so and thus his point being null.

kebman 7y ago
I understand what you're saying, though it's still whataboutism that tries to compare apples to pears. The USA essentially still cares about your privacy and individual rights. China doesn't. In the USA, where there are infractions on privacy (and sadly there are some), it can be openly criticised, discussed and possibly changed democratically. In China that's simply not the case.
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  This would be more convincing if Snowden has never spoken up. But my assumption nowadays is that the US government (and many others) are looking at essentially anyone of interest to them. We're living in a golden era of surveillance. It's never been so cheap to surveil so many people.
  - kebman 7y ago
    True that, but... You can do it too! :D I'm sure most people in here are acquainted with the graph database. Or with just about any tool to scrape the net for info. I'm just surprised more people aren't doing it. After all, it's a great way to keep tabs on your local politicians, investors and your neighbour's cat. Come on guys, let's party like it's DDR!
ivalm 7y ago
I think it is a matter of degree. There is a certain degree of shadiness that is acceptable (most of the world) and certain that should not be acceptable (China, saudi Arabia, etc). There is no moral equivalence between the US and China.
- curiousgal 7y ago
  > There is no moral equivalence between the US and China. There certainly is one if you ask one of the victims of foreign U.S. policy. My point is, there will always be a perspective from which saying "Don't do business with evil" includes the U.S.
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  In terms of foreign policy, you're right, but not in the way you think. American foreign policy has been 100x as evil as Chinese foreign policy for a long time. The US government invaded Iraq based on a lie, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. That's just one of many truly evil things the US government has done abroad recently.