4 ms·

Then the focus should be on why aren't more women being hired for executive and engineering positions? I'm not putting all this on the hiring company; it starts

by jadell 7y ago

Then the focus should be on why aren't more women being hired for executive and engineering positions? I'm not putting all this on the hiring company; it starts much further back in the pipeline than that. So what is the company doing to get more women onto the track towards higher-paying executive and engineering positions, and keeping them on that track?

daseiner1 7y ago
why is that their responsibility at all? Women are electing not to enter that “track;” it’s companies’ jobs to convince them to?
- jadell 7y ago
  Are they not electing to because it doesn't interest them, or are they opting out/washing out due to other factors? Have links to any studies that show one way or the other?
weberc2 7y ago
It's all well and good to understand why this is, but if the answer is "because, on average, women prefer a different distribution of work", then we should let that be. There's this creepy urge to pressure women to share exactly the same preference distributions as men. This restriction of women's choice for the sake of some neat gender parity is antithetical to human rights and equal opportunity.
- jadell 7y ago
  > It's all well and good to understand why this is, but if the answer is "because, on average, women prefer a different distribution of work", then we should let that be. I haven't seen any research showing one way or the other why this is. Have any links to share? Edit: As a side question, if they really prefer a different distribution of work, why do we as a society punish them for it by valuing that work less than we value work generally done by men?
  - weberc2 7y ago
    Another poster linked to this, which is the clearest explanation I've seen to date: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender... The most likely explanation is not that society values male work more than female work, but rather that men prioritize work that is socially valuable (i.e., prefer salary compensation) while women prefer to do work that affords them more flexibility. No one is punishing anyone or being punished by anyone; just different kinds of compensation.
  - oarabbus_ 7y ago
    > Edit: As a side question, if they really prefer a different distribution of work, why do we as a society punish them for it by valuing that work less than we value work generally done by men? I think you are 100% mixing up correlation and causation. "We" don't value anything. The market places a value on things based on what individuals are willing to pay, and has no knowledge or care about the gender of the person performing the task.
  - repolfx 7y ago
    Have you ever looked? There's lots of research out there and the scientific consensus is that biological differences drive different selection of jobs. If you think skewed gender ratios are a computing-specific phenomenon, look here: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-perce... Almost every profession has a skew one way or another. The professions with the most women are at the top. Look at them and ask yourself if they're high earning: preschool and kindergarten teachers at 97.5% female is first, with, oddly, speech language pathologists being the second most female-dominated job. Then there's dental hygienists, secretaries, more childcare workers, nurses, more dental related positions, medical assistant, hairdresser, etc. At the bottom you have the usual suspects with brickerlayers, electrical line workers, etc, anything heavy and dangerous being dominated by men. Is it really a total mystery why childcare jobs are >90% female and crane/tower operators are >99% men?
  - belorn 7y ago
oarabbus_ 7y ago
I think there are a significant number of initiatives, groups, scholarships, etc which provide girls and women beginning at a young age the resources and tools and encouragement into the engineering track.

by jadell 7y ago

daseiner1 7y ago

why is that their responsibility at all? Women are electing not to enter that “track;” it’s companies’ jobs to convince them to?

jadell 7y ago
Are they not electing to because it doesn't interest them, or are they opting out/washing out due to other factors? Have links to any studies that show one way or the other?

weberc2 7y ago

It's all well and good to understand why this is, but if the answer is "because, on average, women prefer a different distribution of work", then we should let that be. There's this creepy urge to pressure women to share exactly the same preference distributions as men. This restriction of women's choice for the sake of some neat gender parity is antithetical to human rights and equal opportunity.

jadell 7y ago
> It's all well and good to understand why this is, but if the answer is "because, on average, women prefer a different distribution of work", then we should let that be. I haven't seen any research showing one way or the other why this is. Have any links to share? Edit: As a side question, if they really prefer a different distribution of work, why do we as a society punish them for it by valuing that work less than we value work generally done by men?
- weberc2 7y ago
  Another poster linked to this, which is the clearest explanation I've seen to date: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender... The most likely explanation is not that society values male work more than female work, but rather that men prioritize work that is socially valuable (i.e., prefer salary compensation) while women prefer to do work that affords them more flexibility. No one is punishing anyone or being punished by anyone; just different kinds of compensation.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  > Edit: As a side question, if they really prefer a different distribution of work, why do we as a society punish them for it by valuing that work less than we value work generally done by men? I think you are 100% mixing up correlation and causation. "We" don't value anything. The market places a value on things based on what individuals are willing to pay, and has no knowledge or care about the gender of the person performing the task.
- repolfx 7y ago
  Have you ever looked? There's lots of research out there and the scientific consensus is that biological differences drive different selection of jobs. If you think skewed gender ratios are a computing-specific phenomenon, look here: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-perce... Almost every profession has a skew one way or another. The professions with the most women are at the top. Look at them and ask yourself if they're high earning: preschool and kindergarten teachers at 97.5% female is first, with, oddly, speech language pathologists being the second most female-dominated job. Then there's dental hygienists, secretaries, more childcare workers, nurses, more dental related positions, medical assistant, hairdresser, etc. At the bottom you have the usual suspects with brickerlayers, electrical line workers, etc, anything heavy and dangerous being dominated by men. Is it really a total mystery why childcare jobs are >90% female and crane/tower operators are >99% men?
- belorn 7y ago

oarabbus_ 7y ago

I think there are a significant number of initiatives, groups, scholarships, etc which provide girls and women beginning at a young age the resources and tools and encouragement into the engineering track.