4 ms·

I honestly hate this "false baseline" story line that applies to almost all anti AI/automation comments. A person who is focused may be better than self driving

I honestly hate this "false baseline" story line that applies to almost all anti AI/automation comments. A person who is focused may be better than self driving vehicle but even that is debatable. However, given real life self driving are already much safer than real life human drivers. Think about pedestrians and bike rider safety too!!

circlefavshape 7y ago
> However, given real life self driving are already much safer than real life human drivers Citation needed
- notus 7y ago
  The citation is that there is a wikipedia list of all the fatalities from self driving cars with only 6 entries on it, and most of them were due to human error still. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-driving_car_fatalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-driving_car_fatal...
  - untog 7y ago
    That is not a good citation given the number of autonomous cars on the road compared to the number of user-driven cars.
  - simion314 7y ago
    You only forgot to consider that there are still drivers in the cars, so each time the human intervene it could have prevented an accident , I am not sure what is the average victims per accident say 2 , you can multiply it with the number of time the drivers had to take over and you have an upper limit, if you don't like this upper limit then we need better numbers but this companies keep them secret or under report the problems.
  - sorokod 7y ago
    According to this [1], fatality rates vary a lot from country to country. For example, in Germany and UK the rate is about 1/3 of the US rate. Will you cherry pick the geography to make your argument? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic...
  - rhino369 7y ago
    Due to human error because they are only level 2 or 3 selfing driving, which requires a human driver. Which means they clearly are not safer than human driving. Telsa autopilot isn't even self-driving. It's fancy cruise control.
sorokod 7y ago
>However, given real life self driving are already much safer than real life human drivers Citation needed. Breakdown by different countries would be also interesting.
mondoshawan 7y ago
Bunk. Autopilot makes very strange decisions during normal operation -- decisions that normal human drivers would NOT make, such as merging into an entrance lane on the freeway. This in and of itself is enough to confuse and befuddle other drivers on the road, which makes it more surprising and dangerous than a human driver. Worse, it will actively fight the driver at the helm to make these decisions. Source: test drove a model 3 and it did just this and nearly caused an accident during the test drive and I could not instruct it to stop.
- Diederich 7y ago
  > and I could not instruct it to stop. Can you please expand on that? In my experience with the most advanced available Tesla driving features over the past two years, touching the brake pedal immediately disengages all of that software, and putting more than a pound or two of turning force on the steering wheel immediately disengages autopilot (steering control), but leaves adaptive cruise control on. You can also use the same stalk you used to engage autopilot to disengage it. 'could not instruct it to stop' is a very bold statement.
  - mondoshawan 7y ago
    It was a bold statement because it was a situation I was unfamiliar with, and the salesman in the car with me wasn't explaining how to prevent it from making such a move. Since the system was alien to me, I wasn't prepared for what I needed to do to do so.
- gwbas1c 7y ago
  > I could not instruct it to stop Bunk. You can take over at any time by turning the wheel, pushing the brake, or pushing the accelerator. Source: I take over from autopilot all the time.
  - mondoshawan 7y ago
    Bunk. I was not made aware that was even possible. Source: I... was there? :D

circlefavshape 7y ago

> However, given real life self driving are already much safer than real life human drivers Citation needed

notus 7y ago
The citation is that there is a wikipedia list of all the fatalities from self driving cars with only 6 entries on it, and most of them were due to human error still. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-driving_car_fatalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-driving_car_fatal...
- untog 7y ago
  That is not a good citation given the number of autonomous cars on the road compared to the number of user-driven cars.
- simion314 7y ago
  You only forgot to consider that there are still drivers in the cars, so each time the human intervene it could have prevented an accident , I am not sure what is the average victims per accident say 2 , you can multiply it with the number of time the drivers had to take over and you have an upper limit, if you don't like this upper limit then we need better numbers but this companies keep them secret or under report the problems.
- sorokod 7y ago
  According to this [1], fatality rates vary a lot from country to country. For example, in Germany and UK the rate is about 1/3 of the US rate. Will you cherry pick the geography to make your argument? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic...
- rhino369 7y ago
  Due to human error because they are only level 2 or 3 selfing driving, which requires a human driver. Which means they clearly are not safer than human driving. Telsa autopilot isn't even self-driving. It's fancy cruise control.

sorokod 7y ago

>However, given real life self driving are already much safer than real life human drivers Citation needed. Breakdown by different countries would be also interesting.

mondoshawan 7y ago

Bunk. Autopilot makes very strange decisions during normal operation -- decisions that normal human drivers would NOT make, such as merging into an entrance lane on the freeway. This in and of itself is enough to confuse and befuddle other drivers on the road, which makes it more surprising and dangerous than a human driver. Worse, it will actively fight the driver at the helm to make these decisions. Source: test drove a model 3 and it did just this and nearly caused an accident during the test drive and I could not instruct it to stop.

Diederich 7y ago
> and I could not instruct it to stop. Can you please expand on that? In my experience with the most advanced available Tesla driving features over the past two years, touching the brake pedal immediately disengages all of that software, and putting more than a pound or two of turning force on the steering wheel immediately disengages autopilot (steering control), but leaves adaptive cruise control on. You can also use the same stalk you used to engage autopilot to disengage it. 'could not instruct it to stop' is a very bold statement.
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  It was a bold statement because it was a situation I was unfamiliar with, and the salesman in the car with me wasn't explaining how to prevent it from making such a move. Since the system was alien to me, I wasn't prepared for what I needed to do to do so.
gwbas1c 7y ago
> I could not instruct it to stop Bunk. You can take over at any time by turning the wheel, pushing the brake, or pushing the accelerator. Source: I take over from autopilot all the time.
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  Bunk. I was not made aware that was even possible. Source: I... was there? :D