4 ms·

So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. It has the potential to make you a slave, as you illustrate in your example. These things don't

So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. It has the potential to make you a slave, as you illustrate in your example. These things don't just happen. If you stand up for what you believe in then perhaps you get fewer toys. It is how it is. I'd rather be poor and stand up for what I believe in than rich and a dickhead. YMMV. The fact that someone has sunk costs does not give them a pass.

RHSeeger 7y ago
> So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. Are you implying that you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you can't pay off without a job? That makes no sense at all. I'll admit you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you will default on if you're out of work for 1 month, but plenty of people wind up out of work for longer periods of time.
- esotericn 7y ago
  I'm saying that you should aim to not get caught up in a lifestyle in which you significantly increase the chance that you will feel forced to do bad things in the future to maintain it. I won't give hard figures because really this mortgage example is just one of many. It's a basic principles thing. Poor people living hand to mouth have no choice. A qualified software developer really does. If you mortgage yourself to the hilt and have two kids you can barely afford, then you might well say "oh, my responsibility is towards my family now". Some people respect that. I think it's bullshit. Anyone can increase their lifestyle to meet their income, pile up debts and then claim they just have to do whatever bossman says because otherwise it'll all unravel.
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    > Anyone can increase their lifestyle to meet their income, pile up debts and then claim they just have to do whatever bossman says because otherwise it'll all unravel. And anyone can go from doing well to living in their car. When I was younger, I was doing well for myself. I wasn't in debt, I rented (no mortgage), happily newly married. And then the economy dropped out from under me and I lost everything. My job, all my savings, etc. We had less than a month of (cheap) rent left in the bank. Eventually, my wife and I had to move so she could take a job further away. She was still in grad school and had to travel 90 minutes each way to meet with people at the school. That was because I couldn't find a job that would support us (after over a year of looking). We didn't have to compromise our morals, but we did have to make a decision that sucked for us. Because shitty things happen. My family and I are back in a good place now. But I recognize that somethings things fall apart no matter how well you plan, and I don't judge people based on the decisions that felt they had to make at such times. I may disagree with their decisions, but I don't believe they are bad people because of them. If you get a chance, watch The Wave. It's a good example of how sometimes even normal "not bad" people can wind up making bad decisions.
    - esotericn 7y ago
      Sure. I think we mostly see eye to eye on this FWIW. I'm glad you found your way through what sounds like a tough situation.
harimau777 7y ago
I don't know if its the same in Germany, but in America very few people can afford to buy a home with cash.

RHSeeger 7y ago

> So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. Are you implying that you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you can't pay off without a job? That makes no sense at all. I'll admit you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you will default on if you're out of work for 1 month, but plenty of people wind up out of work for longer periods of time.

esotericn 7y ago
I'm saying that you should aim to not get caught up in a lifestyle in which you significantly increase the chance that you will feel forced to do bad things in the future to maintain it. I won't give hard figures because really this mortgage example is just one of many. It's a basic principles thing. Poor people living hand to mouth have no choice. A qualified software developer really does. If you mortgage yourself to the hilt and have two kids you can barely afford, then you might well say "oh, my responsibility is towards my family now". Some people respect that. I think it's bullshit. Anyone can increase their lifestyle to meet their income, pile up debts and then claim they just have to do whatever bossman says because otherwise it'll all unravel.
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  > Anyone can increase their lifestyle to meet their income, pile up debts and then claim they just have to do whatever bossman says because otherwise it'll all unravel. And anyone can go from doing well to living in their car. When I was younger, I was doing well for myself. I wasn't in debt, I rented (no mortgage), happily newly married. And then the economy dropped out from under me and I lost everything. My job, all my savings, etc. We had less than a month of (cheap) rent left in the bank. Eventually, my wife and I had to move so she could take a job further away. She was still in grad school and had to travel 90 minutes each way to meet with people at the school. That was because I couldn't find a job that would support us (after over a year of looking). We didn't have to compromise our morals, but we did have to make a decision that sucked for us. Because shitty things happen. My family and I are back in a good place now. But I recognize that somethings things fall apart no matter how well you plan, and I don't judge people based on the decisions that felt they had to make at such times. I may disagree with their decisions, but I don't believe they are bad people because of them. If you get a chance, watch The Wave. It's a good example of how sometimes even normal "not bad" people can wind up making bad decisions.
  - esotericn 7y ago
    Sure. I think we mostly see eye to eye on this FWIW. I'm glad you found your way through what sounds like a tough situation.

harimau777 7y ago

I don't know if its the same in Germany, but in America very few people can afford to buy a home with cash.