8 ms·

I came here to say the same. I do have more issues with macOS than I did, say, 5 years ago. However, the constant Windows update cycle is a nightmare and Linux

I came here to say the same. I do have more issues with macOS than I did, say, 5 years ago. However, the constant Windows update cycle is a nightmare and Linux still can't seem to get battery life and things like Bluetooth (audio inputs, etc.) quite right, so I'm left with hoping that Apple gets their stuff back together. Operating system stability just seems to have declined in general in the last 3-5 years.

computerex 7y ago
Have you tried using tlp/powertop? I'd say my battery life is pretty comparable to Windows after having done some optimizations using aforementioned tools.
- darrmit 7y ago
  I have not, but will check it out. My problem is I love the idea of being able to tinker and get to a super stable, lovable mobile Linux setup, but I just don't have time right now. Maybe someday. :)
  - computerex 7y ago
    I think with tlp/powertop you can leave settings to their (good) default values. It's just a matter of installing these tools.
  - tsuraan 7y ago
    It's not much tinkering at all. Once you've installed powertop (probably just "dnf install powertop" or "apt install powertop", or whatever your favorite flavour is), you can just run "sudo powertop --auto-tune"[0]. If you do like to tinker, you could maybe write your own init script to run that on boot, but your distro probably included one already. 0 - https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/ https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/
- i_am_proteus 7y ago
  Can confirm. Battery life on my T420 went from about 3 to about 7 hours after installing. No manual config necessary. I mention "T420" because I think it's pretty manufacturer-specific. ThinkPad and XPS usually have good hardware support on commmon Linux distributions, but other laptops may not.
- xtracto 7y ago
  As with the other comment saying "have you used X/Y command" it is funny, given the original article. Someone should setup a list of all these "tricks" and non-standard "patches" that people have to use in Linux after installing it so that it works decently. Nowadays my desktop PC is a Linux (Mint) one. I like it, and I use it for several things, including gaming. But I don't kid me, the usability is utter crap, and coming from a 25 year yourny with Linux, it is still playing catchup with regards to hardware control (audio, bluetooth, wifi, etc).
  - computerex 7y ago
    Why do you think the usability is crap? Can you be more specific? I haven't had any issues with audio/bluetooth/wifi and many many people at my workplace use linux for development and I haven't heard about audio/wifi related issues since maybe 10 years ago.
    - feanaro 7y ago
      Yeah, I don't get it. I set it up for a lot of my family, including grandpas and whatnot, taught them how to upgrade packages and basically forgot about it. With Windows that was never possible.
    - xtracto 7y ago
      Sure: - bluetooth headphones refuse to connect half of the time (they work 100% on my phone and on windows on same hardware) - audio: sometimes sound just refuses to play.. have to restart graphical session. - upgrade: after upgrading mint to latest version, restarting got stuck in the terminal: it was missing some package. Had to manually pat install it. - Android studio/mobile: have to fight for the OS to recognize connected mobile for adb. - Game: CS:GO sometimes sound is either choppy or "fixing" it in game settings makes it leggy. Same game in steam as well works fine in windows in same hardware. And the list of thousand paper cuts could go on. Don't get me wrong, I still use Mint as my main OS in that computer. I have always been a Linux/BSD enthusiast. When I was in my 20s I enjoyed a lot tinkering with it, to make X11R6 work, then winmodems, then sound cards (with alsa), then wifi , etc. But nowadays at 37, I care less and less about dealing with that kind of thing.
lostmsu 7y ago
Can you elaborate on what do you mean by Windows update cycle? I have a Mac Mini, that I rarely touch to check a new release of something on Mac, and practically every time I have to use it, an update is pending. Not sure how this is worse, than Windows.
- airstrike 7y ago
  With Windows it feels the same way, except a lot of what Windows Update does runs silently in the background, sometimes during your most precious computing hours with no way to stop it except force quitting through the Task Manager. And half the time the updates fail. And when you quickly want to shut down sometimes Windows also forces an update...
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    There is the active hours setting, and I have not seen an update fail in quite a long time (several years).
    - ulises314 7y ago
      This, everyone is complaining on how bad desktop OSes are now but even windows is great now, compared to mobile devices, desktop is heaven.
    - tekknik 7y ago
      last i checked microsoft still doesn’t have scheduled boot times (granted this would likely be a bios setting on windows boxes) so i’d have to leave my PC on overnight to run the updates. it’s a bandaid, not a fix for the update problem.
      - GordonS 7y ago
        You can use Task Scheduler to stop/start your PC at specific times.
        7y ago
erikbye 7y ago
Regarding Windows update cycle, you have the option of using LTSC, pausing updates for up to 35 days (yes, that's a built-in option now), or adjust update settings with GPO.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  You’re always fighting upstream that way. Even at a massive enterprise with a 9 figure account relationship with Microsoft, they just won’t fix issues after a few weeks of release. The product groups will rope a dope you until you hit some product cycle milestone and then tell you to fuck off. The company has laid off or reallocated everyone and moved them to Azure. It’s Windows latest or bust. Since Apple is a shitshow with Mac and Google is too mercurial to rely on, dumpster fire is the new normal. If you can do it, the smart money right now is to invest in iOS and watch Chrome.
  - derefr 7y ago
    I mean, the GP and most people who hear "fighting the Windows update cycle" assume you mean "fighting against being forced to interrupt your work and reboot to update" (the constant complain among Windows users) rather than something about intentionally avoiding new versions of the OS. If you were an OS company and it were possible to force everyone to be running on master (and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities), wouldn't you, too? But even then, this isn't true: > It’s Windows latest or bust Windows IoT Core is pretty stable. Wouldn't want your ATM or billboard rebooting every night. There are folks at Microsoft who remember how to do LTS software. They just don't think it's a good idea in a consumer product.
    - a1369209993 7y ago
      > and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities That's not what running on master means. It means that all of your (many) security vulnerabilities are ones you don't know about[1] and random things keep breaking for no reason (and when you report them, it breaks in a way that's just different enough to let your bug report be closed as FIXED). 1: except (if you pay attention) the ones the developer advertises as 'features', like ssh with a default password of "password" baked into the kernel for "inventory management".
fragmede 7y ago
What Linux has gotten right (on my hardware), is wake from suspend. That laptop never has problems with that. What's frustrating, is my work MBP laptop, can't seem to reliably wake from sleep (inc using my external monitor).

computerex 7y ago

Have you tried using tlp/powertop? I'd say my battery life is pretty comparable to Windows after having done some optimizations using aforementioned tools.

darrmit 7y ago
I have not, but will check it out. My problem is I love the idea of being able to tinker and get to a super stable, lovable mobile Linux setup, but I just don't have time right now. Maybe someday. :)
- computerex 7y ago
  I think with tlp/powertop you can leave settings to their (good) default values. It's just a matter of installing these tools.
- tsuraan 7y ago
  It's not much tinkering at all. Once you've installed powertop (probably just "dnf install powertop" or "apt install powertop", or whatever your favorite flavour is), you can just run "sudo powertop --auto-tune"[0]. If you do like to tinker, you could maybe write your own init script to run that on boot, but your distro probably included one already. 0 - https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/ https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/
i_am_proteus 7y ago
Can confirm. Battery life on my T420 went from about 3 to about 7 hours after installing. No manual config necessary. I mention "T420" because I think it's pretty manufacturer-specific. ThinkPad and XPS usually have good hardware support on commmon Linux distributions, but other laptops may not.
xtracto 7y ago
As with the other comment saying "have you used X/Y command" it is funny, given the original article. Someone should setup a list of all these "tricks" and non-standard "patches" that people have to use in Linux after installing it so that it works decently. Nowadays my desktop PC is a Linux (Mint) one. I like it, and I use it for several things, including gaming. But I don't kid me, the usability is utter crap, and coming from a 25 year yourny with Linux, it is still playing catchup with regards to hardware control (audio, bluetooth, wifi, etc).
- computerex 7y ago
  Why do you think the usability is crap? Can you be more specific? I haven't had any issues with audio/bluetooth/wifi and many many people at my workplace use linux for development and I haven't heard about audio/wifi related issues since maybe 10 years ago.
  - feanaro 7y ago
    Yeah, I don't get it. I set it up for a lot of my family, including grandpas and whatnot, taught them how to upgrade packages and basically forgot about it. With Windows that was never possible.
  - xtracto 7y ago
    Sure: - bluetooth headphones refuse to connect half of the time (they work 100% on my phone and on windows on same hardware) - audio: sometimes sound just refuses to play.. have to restart graphical session. - upgrade: after upgrading mint to latest version, restarting got stuck in the terminal: it was missing some package. Had to manually pat install it. - Android studio/mobile: have to fight for the OS to recognize connected mobile for adb. - Game: CS:GO sometimes sound is either choppy or "fixing" it in game settings makes it leggy. Same game in steam as well works fine in windows in same hardware. And the list of thousand paper cuts could go on. Don't get me wrong, I still use Mint as my main OS in that computer. I have always been a Linux/BSD enthusiast. When I was in my 20s I enjoyed a lot tinkering with it, to make X11R6 work, then winmodems, then sound cards (with alsa), then wifi , etc. But nowadays at 37, I care less and less about dealing with that kind of thing.

lostmsu 7y ago

Can you elaborate on what do you mean by Windows update cycle? I have a Mac Mini, that I rarely touch to check a new release of something on Mac, and practically every time I have to use it, an update is pending. Not sure how this is worse, than Windows.

airstrike 7y ago
With Windows it feels the same way, except a lot of what Windows Update does runs silently in the background, sometimes during your most precious computing hours with no way to stop it except force quitting through the Task Manager. And half the time the updates fail. And when you quickly want to shut down sometimes Windows also forces an update...
- lostmsu 7y ago
  There is the active hours setting, and I have not seen an update fail in quite a long time (several years).
  - ulises314 7y ago
    This, everyone is complaining on how bad desktop OSes are now but even windows is great now, compared to mobile devices, desktop is heaven.
  - tekknik 7y ago
    last i checked microsoft still doesn’t have scheduled boot times (granted this would likely be a bios setting on windows boxes) so i’d have to leave my PC on overnight to run the updates. it’s a bandaid, not a fix for the update problem.
    - GordonS 7y ago
      You can use Task Scheduler to stop/start your PC at specific times.
      - 7y ago

erikbye 7y ago

Regarding Windows update cycle, you have the option of using LTSC, pausing updates for up to 35 days (yes, that's a built-in option now), or adjust update settings with GPO.

Spooky23 7y ago
You’re always fighting upstream that way. Even at a massive enterprise with a 9 figure account relationship with Microsoft, they just won’t fix issues after a few weeks of release. The product groups will rope a dope you until you hit some product cycle milestone and then tell you to fuck off. The company has laid off or reallocated everyone and moved them to Azure. It’s Windows latest or bust. Since Apple is a shitshow with Mac and Google is too mercurial to rely on, dumpster fire is the new normal. If you can do it, the smart money right now is to invest in iOS and watch Chrome.
- derefr 7y ago
  I mean, the GP and most people who hear "fighting the Windows update cycle" assume you mean "fighting against being forced to interrupt your work and reboot to update" (the constant complain among Windows users) rather than something about intentionally avoiding new versions of the OS. If you were an OS company and it were possible to force everyone to be running on master (and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities), wouldn't you, too? But even then, this isn't true: > It’s Windows latest or bust Windows IoT Core is pretty stable. Wouldn't want your ATM or billboard rebooting every night. There are folks at Microsoft who remember how to do LTS software. They just don't think it's a good idea in a consumer product.
  - a1369209993 7y ago
    > and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities That's not what running on master means. It means that all of your (many) security vulnerabilities are ones you don't know about[1] and random things keep breaking for no reason (and when you report them, it breaks in a way that's just different enough to let your bug report be closed as FIXED). 1: except (if you pay attention) the ones the developer advertises as 'features', like ssh with a default password of "password" baked into the kernel for "inventory management".

fragmede 7y ago

What Linux has gotten right (on my hardware), is wake from suspend. That laptop never has problems with that. What's frustrating, is my work MBP laptop, can't seem to reliably wake from sleep (inc using my external monitor).