3 ms·

I'd argue the sentences are harsh at least compared to many if not most European countries. Where I live, for example, the offence related to serious seditious

I'd argue the sentences are harsh at least compared to many if not most European countries. Where I live, for example, the offence related to serious seditious activity (Endangering the sovereignty of Finland) carries a penalty range of 1 to 10 years imprisonment (generally, the upper range is rarely applied) and additionally requires at least a credible threat of violence or foreign state financial/military involvement.

harperlee 7y ago
Both Germany (10y to life) and France (30y to life) are harder, for example. Source (sorry, spanish): https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-alemania-y-francia-entre-paises-mas-castigan-delito-rebelion-201803261738_noticia.html https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-alemania-y-francia-entre-pais...
- yeahforsureman 7y ago
  Didn't bother to check France, but with respect to Germany, you must be talking about (serious) high treason. Give me a break. Edit: Your reference is talking about rebellion. Not relevant?
  - harperlee 7y ago
    Article talks about both rebellion and sedition. Laws in each country differ so you need to compare them by more than the name, which I understand that is what the article does. But please provide a more accurate source for the benefit of all, perhaps? Im not german, sorry.
    - yeahforsureman 7y ago
      https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/ https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/ It's hard to find anything very close to sedición, particularly given that I've understood that the Spanish Supreme Court has now found that threat of force or violence was not involved, apparently (?) basing their decision on the very broad sounding "outside of legal means" part. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
    - yokaze 7y ago
      Here you go: https://m.eldiario.es/catalunya/politica/tribunal-extradicion-Puigdemont-renuncia-Supremo_0_794770906.html https://m.eldiario.es/catalunya/politica/tribunal-extradicio... To my understanding, a German judge ruled that there are no corresponding laws in practice. The ones considered to be similar by the letter are handled differently: the German highest court has put a much higher hurdle to their application then the Spanish court did.
      - harperlee 7y ago
        Thanks! But that only talks about rebellion, not sedition. Someone else has pointed out that this is akin to treason, and requires violence. The only place the word “sedition” is mentioned is in a literal quote from Puigdemont’s defense lawyer.
        yokaze 7y ago
        The translation of sedition is "Volksverhetzung", which is a crime in Germany, but it has to be s call to harm people, not "violence against the state". And much less in the "they should expect that it might result in violence, when we send our armed riot police in" kind of violence, but the "people will use violence against people because of their religion/skin/sexuality/..." kind. As I understand it, it was never even considered and thrown out right away.

harperlee 7y ago

Both Germany (10y to life) and France (30y to life) are harder, for example. Source (sorry, spanish): https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-alemania-y-francia-entre-paises-mas-castigan-delito-rebelion-201803261738_noticia.html https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-alemania-y-francia-entre-pais...

yeahforsureman 7y ago
Didn't bother to check France, but with respect to Germany, you must be talking about (serious) high treason. Give me a break. Edit: Your reference is talking about rebellion. Not relevant?
- harperlee 7y ago
  Article talks about both rebellion and sedition. Laws in each country differ so you need to compare them by more than the name, which I understand that is what the article does. But please provide a more accurate source for the benefit of all, perhaps? Im not german, sorry.
  - yeahforsureman 7y ago
    https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/ https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/ It's hard to find anything very close to sedición, particularly given that I've understood that the Spanish Supreme Court has now found that threat of force or violence was not involved, apparently (?) basing their decision on the very broad sounding "outside of legal means" part. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
  - yokaze 7y ago
    Here you go: https://m.eldiario.es/catalunya/politica/tribunal-extradicion-Puigdemont-renuncia-Supremo_0_794770906.html https://m.eldiario.es/catalunya/politica/tribunal-extradicio... To my understanding, a German judge ruled that there are no corresponding laws in practice. The ones considered to be similar by the letter are handled differently: the German highest court has put a much higher hurdle to their application then the Spanish court did.
    - harperlee 7y ago
      Thanks! But that only talks about rebellion, not sedition. Someone else has pointed out that this is akin to treason, and requires violence. The only place the word “sedition” is mentioned is in a literal quote from Puigdemont’s defense lawyer.
      - yokaze 7y ago
        The translation of sedition is "Volksverhetzung", which is a crime in Germany, but it has to be s call to harm people, not "violence against the state". And much less in the "they should expect that it might result in violence, when we send our armed riot police in" kind of violence, but the "people will use violence against people because of their religion/skin/sexuality/..." kind. As I understand it, it was never even considered and thrown out right away.