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I have been involved in companies that operate internationally and within China. What you can do is to have isolation modes. Separate email servers or providers

I have been involved in companies that operate internationally and within China. What you can do is to have isolation modes. Separate email servers or providers for people who are going to be accessing emails from China. Mirror only the documents etcetera that will need to be accessed from China. It's almost as if you have a spin off company that can request very limited access of information from the main one. It's a bit more expensive but definitely worth it.

kebman 7y ago
Apparently no atrocity is evil enough for it not being "worth it" to work with these guys...
- toxicFork 7y ago
  The politics and the motivations to do business with China is another issue. However if somebody has to do business there, the point is that there are ways to minimize the damages to your company, partners or customers outside of the wall.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    I get what you're saying, but the point is that no foreign company "has" to do business there. Companies are trying to walk the tightrope but they need to decide if complete capitulation is worth it.
    - zpallin 7y ago
      Actually, they do. Considering how large China is and how powerful their economy is now, ignoring them will mean you are less competitive than the companies who don't. Even if you're a well meaning company, a competitor who doesn't mind China's policies will go there, make a lot more money than you, and buy you out. The best way forward as a business that must operate in China to stay competitive is to hire lots of Chinese employees and send them to the company's "Western" country of origin in hopes that they'll learn our preference for freedom of expression and privacy and take it back home with them.
      - impatientduck 7y ago
        Or we could, you know, pass regulation that disallows companies who make money in totalitarian dictatorships from buying domestic firms. You know, as a thought. Just spit balling here.
      - CharlesColeman 7y ago
        > Even if you're a well meaning company, a competitor who doesn't mind China's policies will go there, make a lot more money than you, and buy you out. China is not turning out to be a land of milk and honey for western corporations. The best business decision for a Western business with regard to China may be to give up on it, because the PRC wants your local competitor to succeed, not you. https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-losing-the-chinese-shopper-11570852805 https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-losing-the-chinese-s... > The shift signals a possible end of an era. For years, it was customary for Western executives to tout their plans for dominating China—a market they felt they had to win as markets elsewhere matured. But foreign consumer brands now hold a smaller market share in the categories tracked by McKinsey & Co. than at any time since the global financial crisis, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of research from the U.S. consulting firm, incorporating data from Euromonitor and IHS Markit. Market share losses were particularly evident in categories such as pet food, passenger cars, videogames, smartphones and appliances. > ... > Some Western companies, including Carrefour SA, Amazon Inc. and Uber Technologies Inc., have decided China is too complex or costly to win for some of their major businesses, and have closed or sold them off after facing powerful local rivals who were able to largely control the market. Ford Motor Co. , Apple Inc. and others remain committed, but are struggling to meet expectations. Amazon said it continues to serve Chinese consumers through its cross-border e-commerce business and remains committed to China. Uber didn’t respond to requests to comment. Ford didn’t comment. Carrefour provided no further comment beyond its press release detailing the transaction.
        zpallin 7y ago
        > China is not turning out to be a land of milk and honey for western corporations. The best business decision for a Western business with regard to China may be to give up on it, because the PRC wants your local competitor to succeed, not you. Agreed. Which is why my advice is limited to companies who will lose to competitors if they fail to compete in Chinese markets. Any company seeking to strike out in China without a local competitor will fail because of the reasons mentioned in the article. That said, any western company trying to compete with Chinese companies will also fail.
- yorwba 7y ago
  Those recommendations also apply to human rights advocacy groups operating in China... not all economic activity in China is related to those evil atrocities and very little actively contributes to making the situation worse.
  - kebman 7y ago
    I totally agree with you. What do you think such a wide-reaching and evil policy will do to groups that essentially are trying to do good?
- curiousgal 7y ago
  Are you kidding me? The U.S. had never infringed on the human rights of minoroties. It's ironic that you say that on Columbus Day of all days. Get off your high horse.
  - ivalm 7y ago
    We are talking about current day and there is a world of difference between the shitshow in the US and straight evil going on in China.
    - curiousgal 7y ago
      OP seemed to suggest that business should be conducted with ethical entities. My point was that the U.S. itself is not so and thus his point being null.
      - kebman 7y ago
        I understand what you're saying, though it's still whataboutism that tries to compare apples to pears. The USA essentially still cares about your privacy and individual rights. China doesn't. In the USA, where there are infractions on privacy (and sadly there are some), it can be openly criticised, discussed and possibly changed democratically. In China that's simply not the case.
        DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        This would be more convincing if Snowden has never spoken up. But my assumption nowadays is that the US government (and many others) are looking at essentially anyone of interest to them. We're living in a golden era of surveillance. It's never been so cheap to surveil so many people.
        kebman 7y ago
        True that, but... You can do it too! :D I'm sure most people in here are acquainted with the graph database. Or with just about any tool to scrape the net for info. I'm just surprised more people aren't doing it. After all, it's a great way to keep tabs on your local politicians, investors and your neighbour's cat. Come on guys, let's party like it's DDR!

kebman 7y ago

Apparently no atrocity is evil enough for it not being "worth it" to work with these guys...

toxicFork 7y ago
The politics and the motivations to do business with China is another issue. However if somebody has to do business there, the point is that there are ways to minimize the damages to your company, partners or customers outside of the wall.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  I get what you're saying, but the point is that no foreign company "has" to do business there. Companies are trying to walk the tightrope but they need to decide if complete capitulation is worth it.
  - zpallin 7y ago
    Actually, they do. Considering how large China is and how powerful their economy is now, ignoring them will mean you are less competitive than the companies who don't. Even if you're a well meaning company, a competitor who doesn't mind China's policies will go there, make a lot more money than you, and buy you out. The best way forward as a business that must operate in China to stay competitive is to hire lots of Chinese employees and send them to the company's "Western" country of origin in hopes that they'll learn our preference for freedom of expression and privacy and take it back home with them.
    - impatientduck 7y ago
      Or we could, you know, pass regulation that disallows companies who make money in totalitarian dictatorships from buying domestic firms. You know, as a thought. Just spit balling here.
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > Even if you're a well meaning company, a competitor who doesn't mind China's policies will go there, make a lot more money than you, and buy you out. China is not turning out to be a land of milk and honey for western corporations. The best business decision for a Western business with regard to China may be to give up on it, because the PRC wants your local competitor to succeed, not you. https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-losing-the-chinese-shopper-11570852805 https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-losing-the-chinese-s... > The shift signals a possible end of an era. For years, it was customary for Western executives to tout their plans for dominating China—a market they felt they had to win as markets elsewhere matured. But foreign consumer brands now hold a smaller market share in the categories tracked by McKinsey & Co. than at any time since the global financial crisis, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of research from the U.S. consulting firm, incorporating data from Euromonitor and IHS Markit. Market share losses were particularly evident in categories such as pet food, passenger cars, videogames, smartphones and appliances. > ... > Some Western companies, including Carrefour SA, Amazon Inc. and Uber Technologies Inc., have decided China is too complex or costly to win for some of their major businesses, and have closed or sold them off after facing powerful local rivals who were able to largely control the market. Ford Motor Co. , Apple Inc. and others remain committed, but are struggling to meet expectations. Amazon said it continues to serve Chinese consumers through its cross-border e-commerce business and remains committed to China. Uber didn’t respond to requests to comment. Ford didn’t comment. Carrefour provided no further comment beyond its press release detailing the transaction.
      - zpallin 7y ago
        > China is not turning out to be a land of milk and honey for western corporations. The best business decision for a Western business with regard to China may be to give up on it, because the PRC wants your local competitor to succeed, not you. Agreed. Which is why my advice is limited to companies who will lose to competitors if they fail to compete in Chinese markets. Any company seeking to strike out in China without a local competitor will fail because of the reasons mentioned in the article. That said, any western company trying to compete with Chinese companies will also fail.
yorwba 7y ago
Those recommendations also apply to human rights advocacy groups operating in China... not all economic activity in China is related to those evil atrocities and very little actively contributes to making the situation worse.
- kebman 7y ago
  I totally agree with you. What do you think such a wide-reaching and evil policy will do to groups that essentially are trying to do good?
curiousgal 7y ago
Are you kidding me? The U.S. had never infringed on the human rights of minoroties. It's ironic that you say that on Columbus Day of all days. Get off your high horse.
- ivalm 7y ago
  We are talking about current day and there is a world of difference between the shitshow in the US and straight evil going on in China.
  - curiousgal 7y ago
    OP seemed to suggest that business should be conducted with ethical entities. My point was that the U.S. itself is not so and thus his point being null.
    - kebman 7y ago
      I understand what you're saying, though it's still whataboutism that tries to compare apples to pears. The USA essentially still cares about your privacy and individual rights. China doesn't. In the USA, where there are infractions on privacy (and sadly there are some), it can be openly criticised, discussed and possibly changed democratically. In China that's simply not the case.
      - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        This would be more convincing if Snowden has never spoken up. But my assumption nowadays is that the US government (and many others) are looking at essentially anyone of interest to them. We're living in a golden era of surveillance. It's never been so cheap to surveil so many people.
        kebman 7y ago
        True that, but... You can do it too! :D I'm sure most people in here are acquainted with the graph database. Or with just about any tool to scrape the net for info. I'm just surprised more people aren't doing it. After all, it's a great way to keep tabs on your local politicians, investors and your neighbour's cat. Come on guys, let's party like it's DDR!