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Okay. Gas peakers are not a sustainable alternative to renewables, so we're going to need solutions that cost more.

AstralStorm 7y ago
Or you could deploy base load nuclear and use solar PV as peakers, with some load optimisation for big daytime spenders depending on insolation. Solar PV plus solar thermal, while seductive, competes for space and deployment.
- Jweb_Guru 7y ago
  Nuclear is also much more expensive than solar, takes a long time to construct (so it's another "big infrastructure" project), and it's heavily regulated. Most countries demonstrably do not want to deal with it. Not to mention, nuclear isn't actually "sustainable" either, it just doesn't cause global warming.
adrianN 7y ago
I suggest we keep building normal PV and wind power until balancing the grid actually becomes a problem and then switch to more expensive technology. Gas peakers can actually be sustainable if you feed them with gas from power-to-gas plants btw. That's a convenient but expensive way for storing large amounts of power.
- Jweb_Guru 7y ago
  That's not remotely practical and you know it. Let's not pretend that burning gas is a sustainable approach to power generation, regardless of how it's generated. I also don't really understand how you think we're going to suddenly flip a switch when "balancing the grid becomes a problem" if there are no alternative plant designs that people have actually constructed in large enough quantities to learn how to do it cheaply. In practice, if new nations onboarding with solar energy also add gas plants, we use more gas faster and contribute more to global warming. To me, it's pretty indefensible not to look at alternatives because they're more expensive.
  - kragen 7y ago
    Accusing someone of secretly agreeing with your point of view despite pretending to believe the opposite does not amount to assuming good faith. Do you think you could rephrase your comment in a less insulting way?
  - adrianN 7y ago
    I got the idea for power-to-gas as energy storage from Prof. Quaschning, who is a leading figure in Germany's Scientists for Future movement and an expert for energy systems, so I assumed as a layman that it is in fact at least somewhat practical. I'm open to hearing refutations though.

Or you could deploy base load nuclear and use solar PV as peakers, with some load optimisation for big daytime spenders depending on insolation. Solar PV plus solar thermal, while seductive, competes for space and deployment.

Jweb_Guru 7y ago
Nuclear is also much more expensive than solar, takes a long time to construct (so it's another "big infrastructure" project), and it's heavily regulated. Most countries demonstrably do not want to deal with it. Not to mention, nuclear isn't actually "sustainable" either, it just doesn't cause global warming.

adrianN 7y ago

I suggest we keep building normal PV and wind power until balancing the grid actually becomes a problem and then switch to more expensive technology. Gas peakers can actually be sustainable if you feed them with gas from power-to-gas plants btw. That's a convenient but expensive way for storing large amounts of power.

Jweb_Guru 7y ago
That's not remotely practical and you know it. Let's not pretend that burning gas is a sustainable approach to power generation, regardless of how it's generated. I also don't really understand how you think we're going to suddenly flip a switch when "balancing the grid becomes a problem" if there are no alternative plant designs that people have actually constructed in large enough quantities to learn how to do it cheaply. In practice, if new nations onboarding with solar energy also add gas plants, we use more gas faster and contribute more to global warming. To me, it's pretty indefensible not to look at alternatives because they're more expensive.
- kragen 7y ago
  Accusing someone of secretly agreeing with your point of view despite pretending to believe the opposite does not amount to assuming good faith. Do you think you could rephrase your comment in a less insulting way?
- adrianN 7y ago
  I got the idea for power-to-gas as energy storage from Prof. Quaschning, who is a leading figure in Germany's Scientists for Future movement and an expert for energy systems, so I assumed as a layman that it is in fact at least somewhat practical. I'm open to hearing refutations though.