5 ms·

>No offence, but what did you expect. >Trying to secede in a country where secession is illegal, is... you know... a crime. This tone is baffling to me. I don

>No offence, but what did you expect. >Trying to secede in a country where secession is illegal, is... you know... a crime. This tone is baffling to me. I don't think anybody is surprised that countries dislike secession. >Also, please downvote me. Actual statement of facts aren't welcomed here. I don't claim to speak for "here", but, personally, this pettiness at the end of your comment is what I'd like most to be absent from HN.

harperlee 7y ago
Ignoring the tone, people are demanding judges to ignore their duty, and the government to intervene in the judiciary system, so the two first quotes you pasted are actually contended points in parts of Spain.
- atomi 7y ago
  Prosecuting the sessionist is a bad move by Spain regardless of the laws. Prosecution is always discretionary and what they're doing is just creating martyrs. Sessionists lost and Spain is the one being petty here. I predict I will see new life for this movement in my lifetime.
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    > Prosecution is always discretionary Not at all, and failing to do so can be itself a crime.
    - atomi 7y ago
      You are patently wrong. In fact, it is part of DoJ policy to direct prosecutors to where they should allocate their limited resources. We had a very nice example of this when Obama's DoJ directed prosecutors to lower their priority on prosecuting Marijuana related crimes. Admittedly, some serious crimes will always be, and deservedly so, a high priority. But prosecutors still just work under the DoJ. And I suspect Spain has a similar hierchy.
      - kgwgk 7y ago
        “The grant of broad discretion to prosecutors is so deeply ingrained in American law that U.S. lawyers often assume that prosecutorial discretion is inevitable. In fact, some countries in Europe and Latin America adhere to the opposite principle of "mandatory prosecution," maintaining, at least in principle, that prosecutors have a duty to bring any charge that is supported by evidence developed by the police or presented by citizens.” https://law.jrank.org/pages/1870/Prosecution-Prosecutorial-Discretion.html https://law.jrank.org/pages/1870/Prosecution-Prosecutorial-D... “The legality principle commands that every case in which there is enough evidence and in which no legal hindrances prohibit prosecution has to be brought to court. Adherence to the legality principle in the procedural sense means that the prosecution service cannot exercise any discretion over the prosecutorial decision. Its role is limited to the legal assessment of the sufficiency of the evidence against the suspect. Other considerations – what are known as public interest factors in opportunity systems – are not considered as factors that prosecutors are allowed to deploy in their decisions. Rather, the public interest is regarded as a consideration for the court which might be reflected in the verdict or the penalty imposed.” http://www.law.gov.cy/law/lawoffice.nsf/0/A5FCDD28D5A9112CC225744200302F80/$file/Comparative%20Analysis%20of%20Prosecution%20Systems%20-%20Part%20II%20-%20The%20Role%20of%20Prosecution%20Services%20in%20Investigation%20and%20Prosecution%20Principles%20and%20Policies.doc http://www.law.gov.cy/law/lawoffice.nsf/0/A5FCDD28D5A9112CC2...
      - pimterry 7y ago
        > You are patently wrong. Ironically, you are patently wrong. As the other poster mentions, mandatory prosecution exists in many parts of the world, and Spain is indeed one of these places. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2004:0334:FIN:EN:PDF https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2... is the clearest English-language reference I can find. Specifically: > The Member States’ criminal systems are divided on the issue of mandatory or discretionary prosecution. The discretionary principle is applied in Belgium, France, Denmark, Ireland, the United Kingdom, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. In Germany, Austria, Spain, Finland, Sweden, Greece, Italy and Portugal the mandatory prosecution principle applies. > The mandatory prosecution principle is that the prosecution authorities must act – even if no complaint has been lodged – where they suspect that an offence has been committed. Prosecuting this is not optional. That's not to say the government could not have applied pressure somehow if they wished of course (though in theory that's strongly discouraged), or even attempted to change the law entirely. Doing so publicly in any way though would pretty seriously harm their election changes on a national level (election is coming on November 11th).

harperlee 7y ago

Ignoring the tone, people are demanding judges to ignore their duty, and the government to intervene in the judiciary system, so the two first quotes you pasted are actually contended points in parts of Spain.

atomi 7y ago
Prosecuting the sessionist is a bad move by Spain regardless of the laws. Prosecution is always discretionary and what they're doing is just creating martyrs. Sessionists lost and Spain is the one being petty here. I predict I will see new life for this movement in my lifetime.
- kgwgk 7y ago
  > Prosecution is always discretionary Not at all, and failing to do so can be itself a crime.
  - atomi 7y ago
    You are patently wrong. In fact, it is part of DoJ policy to direct prosecutors to where they should allocate their limited resources. We had a very nice example of this when Obama's DoJ directed prosecutors to lower their priority on prosecuting Marijuana related crimes. Admittedly, some serious crimes will always be, and deservedly so, a high priority. But prosecutors still just work under the DoJ. And I suspect Spain has a similar hierchy.
    - kgwgk 7y ago
      “The grant of broad discretion to prosecutors is so deeply ingrained in American law that U.S. lawyers often assume that prosecutorial discretion is inevitable. In fact, some countries in Europe and Latin America adhere to the opposite principle of "mandatory prosecution," maintaining, at least in principle, that prosecutors have a duty to bring any charge that is supported by evidence developed by the police or presented by citizens.” https://law.jrank.org/pages/1870/Prosecution-Prosecutorial-Discretion.html https://law.jrank.org/pages/1870/Prosecution-Prosecutorial-D... “The legality principle commands that every case in which there is enough evidence and in which no legal hindrances prohibit prosecution has to be brought to court. Adherence to the legality principle in the procedural sense means that the prosecution service cannot exercise any discretion over the prosecutorial decision. Its role is limited to the legal assessment of the sufficiency of the evidence against the suspect. Other considerations – what are known as public interest factors in opportunity systems – are not considered as factors that prosecutors are allowed to deploy in their decisions. Rather, the public interest is regarded as a consideration for the court which might be reflected in the verdict or the penalty imposed.” http://www.law.gov.cy/law/lawoffice.nsf/0/A5FCDD28D5A9112CC225744200302F80/$file/Comparative%20Analysis%20of%20Prosecution%20Systems%20-%20Part%20II%20-%20The%20Role%20of%20Prosecution%20Services%20in%20Investigation%20and%20Prosecution%20Principles%20and%20Policies.doc http://www.law.gov.cy/law/lawoffice.nsf/0/A5FCDD28D5A9112CC2...
    - pimterry 7y ago
      > You are patently wrong. Ironically, you are patently wrong. As the other poster mentions, mandatory prosecution exists in many parts of the world, and Spain is indeed one of these places. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2004:0334:FIN:EN:PDF https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2... is the clearest English-language reference I can find. Specifically: > The Member States’ criminal systems are divided on the issue of mandatory or discretionary prosecution. The discretionary principle is applied in Belgium, France, Denmark, Ireland, the United Kingdom, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. In Germany, Austria, Spain, Finland, Sweden, Greece, Italy and Portugal the mandatory prosecution principle applies. > The mandatory prosecution principle is that the prosecution authorities must act – even if no complaint has been lodged – where they suspect that an offence has been committed. Prosecuting this is not optional. That's not to say the government could not have applied pressure somehow if they wished of course (though in theory that's strongly discouraged), or even attempted to change the law entirely. Doing so publicly in any way though would pretty seriously harm their election changes on a national level (election is coming on November 11th).