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No one on this forum is saying that these things are lawful in Spain. The more interesting and relevant question is whether it is right or wrong. The answer to

No one on this forum is saying that these things are lawful in Spain. The more interesting and relevant question is whether it is right or wrong. The answer to that question is not automatically the same as lawful/unlawful. Even in a democracy.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
harperlee 7y ago
Judges are not free to ignore the law just to appease complex political issues that have been fed for 20+ years, and can be backtracked to when Pujol came to power in Catalonia. So yes, judges did the right thing. Now it is up to the next president to manage the situation. But the news being discussed here is about politicians misusing funds to pursue their own agenda, and the penal consequences.
- s0l1dsnak3123 7y ago
  I won't claim you are doing this intentionally, but I find it strange that you care so much about being (in my opinion) rather pedantic in this way? Don't you think it's perfectly reasonable - as a bystander and not a member of the legal profession - to apply your imagination over what ought to be and not the semantics of what is? And to engage in a debate on that basis? Do you really think that whether or not judges are free to ignore precedent has any effect on how Catalans and Spaniards feel about this decision? Or am I missing the point of your comment?
  - harperlee 7y ago
    Im not sure I follow you completely - particularly the precedent point, but ill try to explain myself: There is a huge political context around this trial, and I believe that the fact that my parent post was arguing that we should discuss about morality, not just legality, is a way to introduce this context into the evaluation of the trial to assess - and condemn - the result. I think this is mis characterizing the quality of the trial itself. Plenty of people are decrying the trial result because they want independence, which to me is intellectually dishonest. I was thus arguing that the trial itself was right, responding to a direct ask to consider right vs wrong.
- yeahforsureman 7y ago
  Neither are judges free to ignore the European Convention on Human Rights or the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights when interpreting and applying those national laws. Also, wouldn't be the first time Spain got slapped by ECtHR because of sentences based on its outdated Criminal Code.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

harperlee 7y ago

Judges are not free to ignore the law just to appease complex political issues that have been fed for 20+ years, and can be backtracked to when Pujol came to power in Catalonia. So yes, judges did the right thing. Now it is up to the next president to manage the situation. But the news being discussed here is about politicians misusing funds to pursue their own agenda, and the penal consequences.

s0l1dsnak3123 7y ago
I won't claim you are doing this intentionally, but I find it strange that you care so much about being (in my opinion) rather pedantic in this way? Don't you think it's perfectly reasonable - as a bystander and not a member of the legal profession - to apply your imagination over what ought to be and not the semantics of what is? And to engage in a debate on that basis? Do you really think that whether or not judges are free to ignore precedent has any effect on how Catalans and Spaniards feel about this decision? Or am I missing the point of your comment?
- harperlee 7y ago
  Im not sure I follow you completely - particularly the precedent point, but ill try to explain myself: There is a huge political context around this trial, and I believe that the fact that my parent post was arguing that we should discuss about morality, not just legality, is a way to introduce this context into the evaluation of the trial to assess - and condemn - the result. I think this is mis characterizing the quality of the trial itself. Plenty of people are decrying the trial result because they want independence, which to me is intellectually dishonest. I was thus arguing that the trial itself was right, responding to a direct ask to consider right vs wrong.
yeahforsureman 7y ago
Neither are judges free to ignore the European Convention on Human Rights or the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights when interpreting and applying those national laws. Also, wouldn't be the first time Spain got slapped by ECtHR because of sentences based on its outdated Criminal Code.