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Spain is not a federal country. Furthermore, this is closer to NYC trying to separate from New York State.

logicchains 7y ago
England wasn't a federation when America seceded either. The idea of "rights" (or at least the idea the American founders had in mind) is that they're moral concepts independent of whatever the legal system grants.
- oliverx0 7y ago
  America had been taken over by the British. You cannot extrapolate that to every other country. That is certainly not the history of Catalonia.
  - logicchains 7y ago
    The America that was taken over by the British (native Americans) weren't the ones seceeding. The ones seceeding were the descendants of British settlers/conquerors. Fun fact: British America was around 200 years old when it gained independence. Catalonia has been part of Spain (as opposed to an independent principality) for around 300 years.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Were it not for the utterly ill-thought heavy handed actions of the East India company, governor and Lord North, the secession wasn't even wanted. They just wanted better representation within. Poor handling, and particularly heavy handed handling, turned those moderates with a valid grievance into revolutionaries, and secessionists. The East India company was trying to screw over both Britain and the American colonies in equal measure. There probably is a modern lesson in there, which is what results from overly draconian response, and something something overly powerful corporations.
    - harperlee 7y ago
      And beforehand was part of Aragon. The independence of Catalonia is mythical.
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      > Catalonia has been part of Spain for around 300 years. I bet that this land didn't arrived in a ship and was in the same place for a few millions of years at least. Spain has more than 300 years of history.
      - drKarl 7y ago
        Sure, iberians, carthaginesians, fenicians, greek, romans, goths, arabs... but until the XV century it was several independent kingdoms, most important one Aragon and Castilla. So Spain as it is now is relatively recent. Also Portugal belonged to the same Kingdom for a while.
- harperlee 7y ago
  Sure, and they had to bring about a civil war to secede, because it was illegal. That also happened some centuries ago, what was politically acceptable or moral was quite different then. I’d like to think that we now have the political maturity to do this slowly, legally and peacefully if it needs to happen at all.
  - beerandt 7y ago
    I think it's beneficial to see it as: secession (in the US) became definitively illegal because of the Civil War. It was specifically left out of the Constitution, for a few complex reasons, but from a de facto / de jure perspective, was ambiguous at best, until decided by war.

England wasn't a federation when America seceded either. The idea of "rights" (or at least the idea the American founders had in mind) is that they're moral concepts independent of whatever the legal system grants.

oliverx0 7y ago
America had been taken over by the British. You cannot extrapolate that to every other country. That is certainly not the history of Catalonia.
- logicchains 7y ago
  The America that was taken over by the British (native Americans) weren't the ones seceeding. The ones seceeding were the descendants of British settlers/conquerors. Fun fact: British America was around 200 years old when it gained independence. Catalonia has been part of Spain (as opposed to an independent principality) for around 300 years.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Were it not for the utterly ill-thought heavy handed actions of the East India company, governor and Lord North, the secession wasn't even wanted. They just wanted better representation within. Poor handling, and particularly heavy handed handling, turned those moderates with a valid grievance into revolutionaries, and secessionists. The East India company was trying to screw over both Britain and the American colonies in equal measure. There probably is a modern lesson in there, which is what results from overly draconian response, and something something overly powerful corporations.
  - harperlee 7y ago
    And beforehand was part of Aragon. The independence of Catalonia is mythical.
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    > Catalonia has been part of Spain for around 300 years. I bet that this land didn't arrived in a ship and was in the same place for a few millions of years at least. Spain has more than 300 years of history.
    - drKarl 7y ago
      Sure, iberians, carthaginesians, fenicians, greek, romans, goths, arabs... but until the XV century it was several independent kingdoms, most important one Aragon and Castilla. So Spain as it is now is relatively recent. Also Portugal belonged to the same Kingdom for a while.
harperlee 7y ago
Sure, and they had to bring about a civil war to secede, because it was illegal. That also happened some centuries ago, what was politically acceptable or moral was quite different then. I’d like to think that we now have the political maturity to do this slowly, legally and peacefully if it needs to happen at all.
- beerandt 7y ago
  I think it's beneficial to see it as: secession (in the US) became definitively illegal because of the Civil War. It was specifically left out of the Constitution, for a few complex reasons, but from a de facto / de jure perspective, was ambiguous at best, until decided by war.