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I share your opinion, job market in Germany is a tragedy today. I fully understand people writing shady software for VW group at Bosch, they have no alternative

by lnsru 7y ago

I share your opinion, job market in Germany is a tragedy today. I fully understand people writing shady software for VW group at Bosch, they have no alternatives. Kids want nice vacation, payments for the bank must be done every month. Though I am not software developer, but I get also some recruiter offers every week. I was interested in changing jobs and starting talking to these recruiters. Max offers were at €60k what is a bad joke for Munich. Many offers that start negotiations as employment end as contract for 6 months. Before writing here, that changing jobs in Germany is easy, talk to these “recruiters”. Get other work contract with negotiated salary ~€100k for Munich every week. I doubt this will happen soon again.

coldtea 7y ago
So, whether they'd work on making surveillance for totalitarian states was based on whether they'd make $60/k year or $100/k, and afford stuff "nice vacation" for the kids? Doesn't sound like a principled stance. Basically it rounds down to: they would consider a more ethical job, but it's their last priority, well behind a good salary and nice benefits... (It's understandable of course, just not principled)
- Mirioron 7y ago
  Isn't that fairly rational? The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    In the sense of self-benefit, yes, it's rational. >The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous. Principles shouldn't depend on that though. Else "Yeah, I'd help kill kids and kittens for $1m" would also be an acceptable answer. $1m is also enormous compared to $100k. Decent people have made much bigger sacrifices that living with $60K a year for doing the right thing...
    - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
      Principles don't depend on that, but house prices do and if you know the house market in Germany then you'd get it.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        I doubt anybody who is not a programmer making over 60K is homeless in Germany...
- lnsru 7y ago
  I wish, world would be black and white. And job market would be fair with unlimited opportunities everywhere.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >I wish, world would be black and white Doesn't have to be black and white. In fact, it's anything but. You can get a lesser job, with, as you said, 60K instead of $100K, and still take the principled stance. Black and white would be more like having to either work for the surveillance company selling to authoritarian regimes, or starving. Losing your perks is not a "black or white" ethical choice. >And job market would be fair with unlimited opportunities everywhere. If they can only be good if they have nothing to give up for choosing so, and only when there are "unlimited opportunities" to ensure that choosing the more ethical job doesn't hurt their salary at all, then they shouldn't bother...

by lnsru 7y ago

coldtea 7y ago

So, whether they'd work on making surveillance for totalitarian states was based on whether they'd make $60/k year or $100/k, and afford stuff "nice vacation" for the kids? Doesn't sound like a principled stance. Basically it rounds down to: they would consider a more ethical job, but it's their last priority, well behind a good salary and nice benefits... (It's understandable of course, just not principled)

Mirioron 7y ago
Isn't that fairly rational? The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous.
- coldtea 7y ago
  In the sense of self-benefit, yes, it's rational. >The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous. Principles shouldn't depend on that though. Else "Yeah, I'd help kill kids and kittens for $1m" would also be an acceptable answer. $1m is also enormous compared to $100k. Decent people have made much bigger sacrifices that living with $60K a year for doing the right thing...
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    Principles don't depend on that, but house prices do and if you know the house market in Germany then you'd get it.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      I doubt anybody who is not a programmer making over 60K is homeless in Germany...
lnsru 7y ago
I wish, world would be black and white. And job market would be fair with unlimited opportunities everywhere.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >I wish, world would be black and white Doesn't have to be black and white. In fact, it's anything but. You can get a lesser job, with, as you said, 60K instead of $100K, and still take the principled stance. Black and white would be more like having to either work for the surveillance company selling to authoritarian regimes, or starving. Losing your perks is not a "black or white" ethical choice. >And job market would be fair with unlimited opportunities everywhere. If they can only be good if they have nothing to give up for choosing so, and only when there are "unlimited opportunities" to ensure that choosing the more ethical job doesn't hurt their salary at all, then they shouldn't bother...