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I think it makes sense to keep operating reactors that are currently active. We’re already on the hook for storing that waste and managing those decommissioned

by mch82 7y ago

I think it makes sense to keep operating reactors that are currently active. We’re already on the hook for storing that waste and managing those decommissioned sites. Similarly, I’m okay with a phased decommissioning of other dirty fuels. I just think it’s insane to set a long-term goal of growing dirty power jobs/industry. I’d advocate for an immediate stop to any anti-renewable efforts. We should be doing everything we can to help achieve renewables. Last, if we really think it’s a problem, we need to reduce energy consumption.

ohthehugemanate 7y ago
I feel like you might be missing some key knowledge here, including nuclear in "dirty power". Unless you live near to a geothermal or hydro source, there is no renewable option available today that can provide baseload power, the "day in, day out" load that must always be available on the grid. The options are fossils and nuclear. Coal waste is massive: 68 tons of solid and 77 tons of CO2 per person-lifetime of electricity. The majority of that waste goes into the air, where we can't control it and don't know what it's up to (apart from fucking our climate of course). That's not counting fly ash and flue gases, the world's largest source of released radioactivity. That stuff is packed with heavy metals like lead, arsenic, and mercury. The air pollution from coal causes 35,000 deaths from lung disease per year in the US alone - when it's working perfectly. The same figure for China is estimated to be 350,000 deaths per year. In contrast, one person-lifetime of nuclear waste is about 12oz of solid, dry matter, which we can watch (and apparently re-use in modern reactor models). It produces zero CO2, and zero gaseous emissions. The total lifetime death toll from nuclear power is - at it's most generous - under 1,000 people. Renewables are a part of the solution, and long term, they will be the complete solution. But even if we could solve all the power generation, storage, and transmission problems within 50 years (which would be amazing)... we need a way to provide base load in the meantime. And we have an option that is safe, zero-carbon, and produces a fraction of the waste of the alternatives. Additionally, "we need to reduce energy consumption" is only an option if you're cool with 2/3 of the world continuing to live in abject poverty. By the end of this century the global population is projected to level off at 11 billion or so, with almost all of that growth coming outside the wealthy West. The 90% of the world which is currently using a fraction of global power generation wants washing machines, electric lighting, and computers, too. If the US cut average power consumption in half to match Europe, and then we all cut power consumption by a further 50%... we would still need to build multiples of our current baseload power generation capability. TL;DR: We need way more baseload power than we've got. It's not helpful to lump all our options into one category and rule them out completely... especially when one option comes with zero carbon.

by mch82 7y ago

ohthehugemanate 7y ago

I feel like you might be missing some key knowledge here, including nuclear in "dirty power". Unless you live near to a geothermal or hydro source, there is no renewable option available today that can provide baseload power, the "day in, day out" load that must always be available on the grid. The options are fossils and nuclear. Coal waste is massive: 68 tons of solid and 77 tons of CO2 per person-lifetime of electricity. The majority of that waste goes into the air, where we can't control it and don't know what it's up to (apart from fucking our climate of course). That's not counting fly ash and flue gases, the world's largest source of released radioactivity. That stuff is packed with heavy metals like lead, arsenic, and mercury. The air pollution from coal causes 35,000 deaths from lung disease per year in the US alone - when it's working perfectly. The same figure for China is estimated to be 350,000 deaths per year. In contrast, one person-lifetime of nuclear waste is about 12oz of solid, dry matter, which we can watch (and apparently re-use in modern reactor models). It produces zero CO2, and zero gaseous emissions. The total lifetime death toll from nuclear power is - at it's most generous - under 1,000 people. Renewables are a part of the solution, and long term, they will be the complete solution. But even if we could solve all the power generation, storage, and transmission problems within 50 years (which would be amazing)... we need a way to provide base load in the meantime. And we have an option that is safe, zero-carbon, and produces a fraction of the waste of the alternatives. Additionally, "we need to reduce energy consumption" is only an option if you're cool with 2/3 of the world continuing to live in abject poverty. By the end of this century the global population is projected to level off at 11 billion or so, with almost all of that growth coming outside the wealthy West. The 90% of the world which is currently using a fraction of global power generation wants washing machines, electric lighting, and computers, too. If the US cut average power consumption in half to match Europe, and then we all cut power consumption by a further 50%... we would still need to build multiples of our current baseload power generation capability. TL;DR: We need way more baseload power than we've got. It's not helpful to lump all our options into one category and rule them out completely... especially when one option comes with zero carbon.