5 ms·

Why are you rewriting history? Apple didn't just decide not to embrace Flash, they actively decided to kill it. Apple banned flash based apps in their review gu

by soup10 7y ago

Why are you rewriting history? Apple didn't just decide not to embrace Flash, they actively decided to kill it. Apple banned flash based apps in their review guidelines and Adobe didn't see a way forward since Job's had decided everything but native apps were to be purged from the app store. Html 5 isn't a replacement for what flash offered, it wasn't then and it isn't now. Here is the Jobs quote from when this happened: "He takes a while to get there, but eventually he puts the notion into a nutshell. "Flash is a cross platform development tool," he says. "It is not Adobe’s goal to help developers write the best iPhone, iPod and iPad apps. It is their goal to help developers write cross platform apps."" ""Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs"

mthoms 7y ago
You seem to be doing a little re-writing of history yourself right here: > Instead Jobs decided business wise he could lock devs into developing native apps in the iOS ecosystem, scapegoat performance and security for the ban, and gain a competitive advantage at the same time Steve Jobs never even envisioned the App Store model when he decided against supporting Flash in Safari. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(iOS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(iOS) : >... prior to its unveiling in 2007, Apple's then-CEO Steve Jobs did not intend to let third-party developers build native apps for iOS, instead directing them to make web applications for the Safari web browser. However, backlash from developers prompted the company to reconsider, with Jobs announcing in October 2007 that Apple would have a software development kit available for developers by February 2008 You can also read about an actual iPhone engineer's thoughts on the matter https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-engineer-reveals-real-reason-steve-jobs-didn-202507266.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-engineer-reveals-real-r... Interesting tidbit: Apple was actually trying to work with Adobe to iron out Flash's security problems but was rebuffed. Anyways, the fact is, the App Store was actually an afterthought.... An accident of history that even Steve didn't see coming. The decision to forego Flash came way before that.
- soup10 7y ago
  I'm referring to were jobs went on a 1600 word rant about flash while not once mentioning the shortcomings of his own objective-c authoring environments and the many good things about flash that lead to the enormous community it had. https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ This combined with updated app review guidelines banning flash on iOS accelerated the adoption of html5. Afterthought or not, apps quickly became the biggest selling point of smartphones from the second gen onward and many technical architecture decisions had the intended effect of locking developers in. Ports to android were often delayed by months and years if they happened at all.
  - mthoms 7y ago
    You accused someone of "trying to rewrite history", when what they said was factually correct. It's also been established that Apple tried to work with Adobe on addressing the issues it saw with Flash but was rebuffed. The issue of Apple forbidding non-native code is one I disagreed with but has many layers and complexities. It's not nearly as simple as your implication that Jobs seemingly woke up one day and decided to kill Flash for no good reason. > rant about flash while not once mentioning the shortcomings of his own objective-c authoring environments and the many good things about flash that lead to the enormous community it had I'm just going to re-phrase what the poster above said - Why is it on Apple to evangelize Adobe's software (and criticize it's own)? That just doesn't make any sense.
    - soup10 7y ago
      >Why is it on Apple to make honest evaluations of Flash? It makes a lot of sense if the primary goal is to make good technology and software. Is that seriously so hard to understand?
      - mthoms 7y ago
        In case you missed it, he was discussing Flash in the context of a mobile device. There is simply nothing positive to say about it. Nothing. Everything he did mention, from power consumption to terrible security and poor usability has since been proven true. I don't know of a single reputable technologist, or tech journalist, who would dispute that. Do you? Here's a write up of why Flash failed on Android. Notice any familiar themes? https://www.extremetech.com/computing/134551-why-flash-failed-on-android-and-what-it-means-for-adobe https://www.extremetech.com/computing/134551-why-flash-faile...
helpPeople 7y ago
We must teach our fellow developers of Apple's Evils. And to consumers, what they lose by supporting the BP of tech.

by soup10 7y ago

mthoms 7y ago

You seem to be doing a little re-writing of history yourself right here: > Instead Jobs decided business wise he could lock devs into developing native apps in the iOS ecosystem, scapegoat performance and security for the ban, and gain a competitive advantage at the same time Steve Jobs never even envisioned the App Store model when he decided against supporting Flash in Safari. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(iOS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(iOS) : >... prior to its unveiling in 2007, Apple's then-CEO Steve Jobs did not intend to let third-party developers build native apps for iOS, instead directing them to make web applications for the Safari web browser. However, backlash from developers prompted the company to reconsider, with Jobs announcing in October 2007 that Apple would have a software development kit available for developers by February 2008 You can also read about an actual iPhone engineer's thoughts on the matter https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-engineer-reveals-real-reason-steve-jobs-didn-202507266.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-engineer-reveals-real-r... Interesting tidbit: Apple was actually trying to work with Adobe to iron out Flash's security problems but was rebuffed. Anyways, the fact is, the App Store was actually an afterthought.... An accident of history that even Steve didn't see coming. The decision to forego Flash came way before that.

soup10 7y ago
I'm referring to were jobs went on a 1600 word rant about flash while not once mentioning the shortcomings of his own objective-c authoring environments and the many good things about flash that lead to the enormous community it had. https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ This combined with updated app review guidelines banning flash on iOS accelerated the adoption of html5. Afterthought or not, apps quickly became the biggest selling point of smartphones from the second gen onward and many technical architecture decisions had the intended effect of locking developers in. Ports to android were often delayed by months and years if they happened at all.
- mthoms 7y ago
  You accused someone of "trying to rewrite history", when what they said was factually correct. It's also been established that Apple tried to work with Adobe on addressing the issues it saw with Flash but was rebuffed. The issue of Apple forbidding non-native code is one I disagreed with but has many layers and complexities. It's not nearly as simple as your implication that Jobs seemingly woke up one day and decided to kill Flash for no good reason. > rant about flash while not once mentioning the shortcomings of his own objective-c authoring environments and the many good things about flash that lead to the enormous community it had I'm just going to re-phrase what the poster above said - Why is it on Apple to evangelize Adobe's software (and criticize it's own)? That just doesn't make any sense.
  - soup10 7y ago
    >Why is it on Apple to make honest evaluations of Flash? It makes a lot of sense if the primary goal is to make good technology and software. Is that seriously so hard to understand?
    - mthoms 7y ago
      In case you missed it, he was discussing Flash in the context of a mobile device. There is simply nothing positive to say about it. Nothing. Everything he did mention, from power consumption to terrible security and poor usability has since been proven true. I don't know of a single reputable technologist, or tech journalist, who would dispute that. Do you? Here's a write up of why Flash failed on Android. Notice any familiar themes? https://www.extremetech.com/computing/134551-why-flash-failed-on-android-and-what-it-means-for-adobe https://www.extremetech.com/computing/134551-why-flash-faile...

helpPeople 7y ago

We must teach our fellow developers of Apple's Evils. And to consumers, what they lose by supporting the BP of tech.