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The tech industry is floating all these complex technological ideas so solve traffic congestion, from apps that track traffic, to ride hailing to autonomous car

The tech industry is floating all these complex technological ideas so solve traffic congestion, from apps that track traffic, to ride hailing to autonomous cars, but the reality is that traffic congestion is not a tech problem but rather a simple physics problem (and political problem). The core issue is simply that cars physically take up too much space on the road, and move too few passengers. This simple physics problem can be solved solved with 19th century solutions as NYC has here. Make exclusive room for buses, which are dramatically more space efficient than cars. Problem solved.

buss 7y ago
This is exactly right. Most of the problems in cities aren't due to technology, they're due to bad governance. Our solutions need to be political, not just technological.
repsilat 7y ago
Autonomous cars and ride-hailing weren't/aren't meant to solve traffic congestion. Traffic tracking actually does help by allowing people to make use of underused capacity. Otherwise, I agree -- cars take up too much room, especially when there's just one or two people in them. And I like bus lanes, but I think per-vehicle traffic pricing is a better idea, because it achieves the "densification incentive" in a way that also works for carpooling and private bus-like modes. And before someone says it's regressive, a toll is less onerous than a ban, which is what bus-only lanes are. And (way off topic) I think if income taxes are progressive enough then other types of taxation don't need to be -- and probably shouldn't be, if their purpose is to price externalities.
- Arnt 7y ago
  Actually does help? If the bus is to be dependable, it needs to arrive on time, and that means that the lane in front of it needs to be free. Consistently free — the bus past my house stops 20 times, so that's 20 points at which the bus needs to be on time on order to be seen as dependable. The bus needs to drive at the same speed every day, and even be able to drive a little faster. You can either regard the free asphalt as "spare capacity" or regard it as being used by the bus that's not visible right now, but will pass by in a minute or two. Perhaps it's more correct to say that the free asphalt is being used by the route schedule than the vehicle itself.
anonu 7y ago
The work of Robert Moses is slowly getting undone. He left a major imprint on NYC, building infrastructure to support the automobile. For Moses, the car was the great middle class equalizer. The result is NYC has 2 highways going up and down it's waterfront when it could have focused on integrating it's city on the rivers as opposed to using them to funnel cars into Manhattan.
- ggm 7y ago
  I sometimes visit a Brisbane development forum which cannot fathom my suggestions to adopt "the big dig" with our city riverfront freeway. They all see this as a waste of time, and I still see this as returning 100+ year value to something precious: waterfront is too valuable to waste on cars. The ground is amenable to tunnels. We should be getting rid of the flyovers.
  - LilBytes 7y ago
    Have you seen the posts on Facebook or the Courier Mail about the soon to be dedicated busway that's going on Gympie Road? Or around how the road is specifically going to be widened to open a 24/7 bus lane? The public are vehemently against more busways while also complaining about how congestion on Gympie Road, Lytton Road and Wynnum Road are constantly getting worse. It all really beggers belief. We continue to throw money on making roads bigger but it doesn't help, all it means is more and more people move to the other end before the status quo reaches equilibrium again, and the cycle of road works starts again. This of courst assumes the road works ever finish. I'm looking at you, Kingsmith Drive, Mudeergaba Exit on the Gold Coast. All the while we're saying there's less commuters using public transport year on year than ever before. This is a surprise to no one if you notice busses take an hour to travel 8km when you're contending with gridlocked cars for the entire distance. Less you purchase a moped or a motorcycle and join me and the 2 Wheel Nomads that Brisbane's starting to enjoy. The article is behind a pay wall, I'm not sure how to get around it. https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fcouriermail%2Fposts%2F10157191246717702&width=500 https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2...
quietthrow 7y ago
Essentially what you are saying is have really really good public transportation and the traffics problem can be solved. Can any HNers from Japan or Singapore chime in here. Is traffic congestion common in your country’big cities given you have some of the worlds best public transportation infrastructure?
- adrianN 7y ago
  Congestion is roughly constant in all cities because people's willingness to tolerate it is roughly constant. Build more roads and people drive more, but more public transport and more people can get to where they want to be with less resource use.
  - tim333 7y ago
    Pricing can help. Build more roads but charge. Also having been in for example Singapore and Manila there are major differences. (Singa's better)
odiroot 7y ago
Singapore nearly solved this problem by making car ownership nearly prohibitively expensive. Especially driving during rush hours costs a lot. Even taxis pay up. Unfortunately the side effect is, the drivers feels entitled and drive like they own the roads (well, since they paid for it!)

buss 7y ago

This is exactly right. Most of the problems in cities aren't due to technology, they're due to bad governance. Our solutions need to be political, not just technological.

repsilat 7y ago

Autonomous cars and ride-hailing weren't/aren't meant to solve traffic congestion. Traffic tracking actually does help by allowing people to make use of underused capacity. Otherwise, I agree -- cars take up too much room, especially when there's just one or two people in them. And I like bus lanes, but I think per-vehicle traffic pricing is a better idea, because it achieves the "densification incentive" in a way that also works for carpooling and private bus-like modes. And before someone says it's regressive, a toll is less onerous than a ban, which is what bus-only lanes are. And (way off topic) I think if income taxes are progressive enough then other types of taxation don't need to be -- and probably shouldn't be, if their purpose is to price externalities.

Arnt 7y ago
Actually does help? If the bus is to be dependable, it needs to arrive on time, and that means that the lane in front of it needs to be free. Consistently free — the bus past my house stops 20 times, so that's 20 points at which the bus needs to be on time on order to be seen as dependable. The bus needs to drive at the same speed every day, and even be able to drive a little faster. You can either regard the free asphalt as "spare capacity" or regard it as being used by the bus that's not visible right now, but will pass by in a minute or two. Perhaps it's more correct to say that the free asphalt is being used by the route schedule than the vehicle itself.

anonu 7y ago

The work of Robert Moses is slowly getting undone. He left a major imprint on NYC, building infrastructure to support the automobile. For Moses, the car was the great middle class equalizer. The result is NYC has 2 highways going up and down it's waterfront when it could have focused on integrating it's city on the rivers as opposed to using them to funnel cars into Manhattan.

ggm 7y ago
I sometimes visit a Brisbane development forum which cannot fathom my suggestions to adopt "the big dig" with our city riverfront freeway. They all see this as a waste of time, and I still see this as returning 100+ year value to something precious: waterfront is too valuable to waste on cars. The ground is amenable to tunnels. We should be getting rid of the flyovers.
- LilBytes 7y ago
  Have you seen the posts on Facebook or the Courier Mail about the soon to be dedicated busway that's going on Gympie Road? Or around how the road is specifically going to be widened to open a 24/7 bus lane? The public are vehemently against more busways while also complaining about how congestion on Gympie Road, Lytton Road and Wynnum Road are constantly getting worse. It all really beggers belief. We continue to throw money on making roads bigger but it doesn't help, all it means is more and more people move to the other end before the status quo reaches equilibrium again, and the cycle of road works starts again. This of courst assumes the road works ever finish. I'm looking at you, Kingsmith Drive, Mudeergaba Exit on the Gold Coast. All the while we're saying there's less commuters using public transport year on year than ever before. This is a surprise to no one if you notice busses take an hour to travel 8km when you're contending with gridlocked cars for the entire distance. Less you purchase a moped or a motorcycle and join me and the 2 Wheel Nomads that Brisbane's starting to enjoy. The article is behind a pay wall, I'm not sure how to get around it. https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fcouriermail%2Fposts%2F10157191246717702&width=500 https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2...

quietthrow 7y ago

Essentially what you are saying is have really really good public transportation and the traffics problem can be solved. Can any HNers from Japan or Singapore chime in here. Is traffic congestion common in your country’big cities given you have some of the worlds best public transportation infrastructure?

adrianN 7y ago
Congestion is roughly constant in all cities because people's willingness to tolerate it is roughly constant. Build more roads and people drive more, but more public transport and more people can get to where they want to be with less resource use.
- tim333 7y ago
  Pricing can help. Build more roads but charge. Also having been in for example Singapore and Manila there are major differences. (Singa's better)

odiroot 7y ago

Singapore nearly solved this problem by making car ownership nearly prohibitively expensive. Especially driving during rush hours costs a lot. Even taxis pay up. Unfortunately the side effect is, the drivers feels entitled and drive like they own the roads (well, since they paid for it!)