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Hmm. I get other people to build my car, grow my food, generate my electricity, extract and refine my petrol, clean my water, I've rented cars, I get others to

by IanCal 7y ago

Hmm. I get other people to build my car, grow my food, generate my electricity, extract and refine my petrol, clean my water, I've rented cars, I get others to fly planes for me that I don't own, I use trains others drive and own. I do everything for little to nothing in my life, and there's no reasonable default as to where the line is other than a cost/benefit comparison. For my for many years owning a car was far more expensive than renting or getting taxis when needed. Owning a car absolutely would have been an expensive hobby, and the same is true for many in cities. Having a personal server is exceptionally cheap. I had a VPS unnoticed recently I'd forgotten to cancel which cost about 10 dollars per year. That's about one minimum wage hour where I live. If you mean literally a personal server a raspberry pi can easily run a bunch of things and can cost about the same as a one off. It's time, and upfront costs of software. If I want updates, and I do (security at least) I need some ongoing payments for those, and then I need to manage a machine. That management is better done by people other than me (as even if they earned the same as me they'd be faster and better) and they can manage more machines without a linear increase in their time. So why self host? Sometimes it'll make sense, but the idea it should be the default to me doesn't hold. Little needs to be 100% in house, and sharing things can often be far more efficient. Software just happens to be incredibly easy to share.

teddyh 7y ago
> So why self host? Sometimes it'll make sense, but the idea it should be the default to me doesn't hold. You can’t outsource your privacy. Once you’ve given your information to a third party, that third party can and will probably use it as much as they can get away with. And legal protection from unreasonable search and seizure is also much weaker once you’ve already given out your information to a third party. To generalize, and to also answer your other comments in a more general sense, you can’t outsource your freedom or civic responsibility. If you do, you turn yourself into a serf; someone with no recourse when those whom you place your trust in ultimately betray you. (Also, just like “owning” a timeshare is not like owning your house, having a VPS is not self-hosting.)
- IanCal 7y ago
  This is of course part of the cost/benefit thing you need to look at - but again it doesn't mean it is obviously the default. People can do things with my image if I leave the house, but going out in CCTV dazzling outfits with a fully covered face is not "the default". > If you do, you turn yourself into a serf; I'm really not sure I follow. This is about self hosting services, I can't really link (e.g.) hosting my data on github.com and turning myself "into a serf". > someone with no recourse when those whom you place your trust in ultimately betray you. There's obviously recourse - as an EU citizen (at least currently) it's possible that companies can lose 4% of their global turnover for misusing data. > (Also, just like “owning” a timeshare is not like owning your house, having a VPS is not self-hosting.) You can see from my post that I also put up the price of running a rpi if you didn't count a VPS as self hosting, which I absolutely would because to me it's about what services I run vs what services I pay others to run.
rovr138 7y ago
> I had a VPS unnoticed recently I’d forgotten to cancel I found on my Linode account one last weekend. It’s been up since 2010 running Debian 5, no updates cause the repos are archived. Couple of PHP sites on there which I don’t control the domains of (but the sites where active). Last email I have from the people there is 2012, a backup. The company apparently is not in business anymore (I know the domains registrar was on the personal account of the owner. He might have have auto renew on). Backed up everything there and shut it down.

by IanCal 7y ago

teddyh 7y ago

> So why self host? Sometimes it'll make sense, but the idea it should be the default to me doesn't hold. You can’t outsource your privacy. Once you’ve given your information to a third party, that third party can and will probably use it as much as they can get away with. And legal protection from unreasonable search and seizure is also much weaker once you’ve already given out your information to a third party. To generalize, and to also answer your other comments in a more general sense, you can’t outsource your freedom or civic responsibility. If you do, you turn yourself into a serf; someone with no recourse when those whom you place your trust in ultimately betray you. (Also, just like “owning” a timeshare is not like owning your house, having a VPS is not self-hosting.)

IanCal 7y ago
This is of course part of the cost/benefit thing you need to look at - but again it doesn't mean it is obviously the default. People can do things with my image if I leave the house, but going out in CCTV dazzling outfits with a fully covered face is not "the default". > If you do, you turn yourself into a serf; I'm really not sure I follow. This is about self hosting services, I can't really link (e.g.) hosting my data on github.com and turning myself "into a serf". > someone with no recourse when those whom you place your trust in ultimately betray you. There's obviously recourse - as an EU citizen (at least currently) it's possible that companies can lose 4% of their global turnover for misusing data. > (Also, just like “owning” a timeshare is not like owning your house, having a VPS is not self-hosting.) You can see from my post that I also put up the price of running a rpi if you didn't count a VPS as self hosting, which I absolutely would because to me it's about what services I run vs what services I pay others to run.

rovr138 7y ago

> I had a VPS unnoticed recently I’d forgotten to cancel I found on my Linode account one last weekend. It’s been up since 2010 running Debian 5, no updates cause the repos are archived. Couple of PHP sites on there which I don’t control the domains of (but the sites where active). Last email I have from the people there is 2012, a backup. The company apparently is not in business anymore (I know the domains registrar was on the personal account of the owner. He might have have auto renew on). Backed up everything there and shut it down.