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Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I liv
by fiblye 7y ago
Undiluted orientalism.
I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bags from convenience stores all over the damn place.
Most parts of Tokyo and cities with tourism are generally clean because there are heavy cleanup operations. People are still littering just like everywhere else.
> Invisible dirt – germs and bacteria – are another source of concern. When people catch colds or flu, they wear surgical masks to avoid infecting other people.
But you’ll never catch people washing their hands and grandpas always pull down their mask to cough so as to not dirty it. I caught a news program during flu season last year telling people how to avoid the flu. Their recommendations? Keep your stomach wrapped and extra warm, and drink green tea since it cures influenza.
- claudeganon 7y ago> I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere While I generally agree, the funny part about this is that it’s not uncommon in Japan for people to refer to people from Osaka as being “not Japanese.”
- fiblye 7y agoTrue. Japanese people outside of Osaka generally disown Osaka. They also completely disown their litter. It’s always foreigners, even if it’s natto boxes.
- tasogare 7y agoI have been on a beach in Shimane-ken, it was the dirtiest I ever seen. Lot of trash everywhere. Explanation from my Japanese companion: it is from Korea. Yeah sure, this bento box has been carried by the current...
- kimjongtrill 7y agoi see every country has its own florida
- claudeganon 7y agoOsaka holds a strange place in Japanese culture. It is considered distinctly “un-Japanese,” but still at the same time is famous for producing all kinds of creative types (comedians, musicians, artists). And its accent is generally considered charming, if “inappropriate” for formal discourse. As an American, I’ve always felt more comfortable there because it’s way less uptight and rule-bound than other parts of Japan.
- selectodude 7y agoOsaka is so much fun. I felt the same way. I didn’t get the vibe that I was an alien compared to the rest of Japan.
- CapricornNoble 7y agoAlmost every time I've been approached by a friendly, curious, Japanese person, they've been from Osaka. Regardless of age or gender, they are definitely the most outgoing and gaijin-friendly people in Japan. While we're on the subject of Osaka stories, about 5 years ago in February I was walking with friends near the "Running Man" bridge in Shinsaibashi. Probably around 1am, and cold. A taxi pulls up close to the bridge....the driver pops the trunk, a passenger joins him at the rear of the vehicle....and they took a PASSED OUT Japanese dude outta the taxi's trunk and just laid him on the concrete. He didn't even have a shirt on. They reached in the trunk and threw a shoe at him. Then the taxi left. We're just standing there in awe thinking "No shirt, shoes off, probably drunk and lying on cold concrete in February? That dude is gonna die of hypothermia and whoever dropped him off doesn't seem to give 2 shits....man Osaka is wild." Not surprising as this is about 2 blocks from the parking lot where all the yakuza park their exotics[1]. Look at that building in Street View and even in daytime there's a yellow exotic parked there. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/dyPU7rzM5QbkLtTEA https://goo.gl/maps/dyPU7rzM5QbkLtTEA
- Rapzid 7y ago
- scruple 7y agoOsaka really is _different_ in a tangible sense. They seem to buck the conservative/traditional trends as a point of pride. That said, 2 of the most disgusting (public) bathrooms I've ever had the displeasure of stepping into were in Osaka. That's been a sticking point for me and it's come up in conversation nearly every time I have a conversation about Japan. I thought Osaka was fun, and it has a great culture, but you need to be prepared for it's reality if you are in Tokyo or Kyoto first.
- cumwolf 7y agothat's very fascinating, as someone who has only experienced Tokyo, I was amazed with how clean it was compared to other Eastern Asian cities (I lived in Shanghai). Wouldn't have guessed it was a bit of smoke and mirrors.
- coldtea 7y agoOr the parent's comment is a big of exaggeration to downplay the general cleanliness. Compared to most major global cities it's night and day. I'd take a hard look on NY, Chicago, L.A, London, Paris, Amsterdam, before I complain like the grandparent about the Japanese situation which is an order of magnitude better... Tokyo of course is on a league of its own, but here's Osaka Street View, go around, how does it compare to what you read? https://www.google.com/maps/@34.675107,135.5261238,3a,75y,272.55h,83.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFJZ32sQY1LS5lWdT_cp34g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@34.675107,135.5261238,3a,75y,27...
- Consultant32452 7y agoSomeone may have a better answer, but I did a google search for worst parts of Osaka. I got Kabikucho as an answer: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6960715,139.7029924,3a,75y,268.51h,76.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLqtCF4zW--td0UY2fFnoaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6960715,139.7029924,3a,75y,2... We can compare that to a random spot in skid row, LA. https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0413292,-118.2437281,3a,75y,325.68h,91.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAwuOyg7CznnfvOak6PwRlw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0413292,-118.2437281,3a,75y,...
- nnutter 7y agoThose surgical masks may not be doing much either due to improper use. As they get wet due to moisture in the breath they become less permeable causing more of the air to be vented out the sides rather than through the membrane. Perhaps this could still decrease the radius of infection even in this suboptimal state.
- samus 7y agoJust curious, are surgeons actually changing masks during long surgeries?
- whiddershins 7y agoMaybe the explanation is a bit overwrought but it’s a fact that Tokyo is astonishingly clean, and I never once saw someone drop large trash in the street, even though there aren’t bins. That could be as simple as broken windows theory but the contrast with Brooklyn is striking. The cultural attitude difference is real to some degree. People tend to smoke while standing in one place, a designated smoking area outside with an ashtray, not walk and smoke. This is a huge difference and reflects a priority on not annoying people around you. That’s just one of many example I could give of what are obviously and viscerally differences in habit, custom, and perspective about consideration for strangers.
- mnky9800n 7y agoThat's because you separate your trash and put it in bins in your building
- kylorhall 7y agoThere's no bins on the street because Japanese people rarely eat, drink, smoke, etc while moving, though Starbucks/etc has changed that a little bit, but I rarely see those discarded. You just don't have any trash to drop, you'd keep it in your bag if you did, and there's bins at konbini or vending machines everywhere. Today, like most days, on the news they had more videos of Rugby tourists passed out on the street, replaying the subway video, etc. This time they had a segment about gaijin putting out cigarette butts with their shoes and walking off for like 5 minutes. Haven't seen it any worse than the Rugby World Cup.. I don't want to be around for the Olympics.
- netsharc 7y agoI was in Tokyo and Osaka these last weeks, and China before Tokyo. Landing in Tokyo after China was magical. People didn't shout in public or have their phones blaring. They let people disembark trains instead of just barging in as soon as the train doors open, and they queue neatly for those doors. And yes everything was clean and tidy. But the touristy area of Osaka was back to being dreadful. People cutting you off while walking, groups stopping in the middle of the way, often with their rolling suitcases blocking more of the path. I noticed there were many Chinese tourists (from the language with which they were shouting at each other..). I don't agree that the lack of litter is only due to the cleanup. The Japanese in general follow the rules as expected, like I wrote above with queueing and putting their phones on silent mode.
- tasogare 7y ago> People didn't shout in public or have their phones blaring. Yet Japan is a very noisy country. Store clerks shouting irasshaimase like robots, speaking elevators, politians in campaign and their cars with mega-phone, etc. added to paper thin (sometimes literally) walls make it sometime painful to live here.
- kylorhall 7y agoYeah, but you drown all of the automated noises out pretty quickly, it's just white noise. It's weird stepping into an elevator that doesn't talk to you sometimes; is it even working?
- sunstone 7y agoThe pachinko parlors are particularly quiet and serene.
- journalctl 7y agoJust don’t bother any men in the back in flashy suits and you just might get to keep your pinky fingers.
- CapricornNoble 7y ago
- ekianjo 7y ago> because there are heavy cleanup operations Glad to see someone finally repeating what I have been saying forever about Japan. It's clean because there is an army of people cleaning the place every single day. Multiple times a day.
- baxtr 7y agoAt least someone in their society cares
- christiansakai 7y agoI believe by people you mean tourists but not the locals
- rjf72 7y agoDoes Osaka have the same school cleaning culture with a meaningfully large number of schools? In particular I know some schools in Japan (not sure what percent) do not even employee janitors because of this culture of cleaning responsibility. It'd be an interesting way to test/refute the obvious hypothesis that the article is promoting. If the answer is yes, then the hypothesis can, more or less, be rejected.
- briandear 7y agoChinese public schools have the kids clean the school as well.
- Numberwang 7y agoI've been all over the world, including Tokyo and Osaka. You are wrong and spreading misinformation. But good on you for knowing the word Orientalism. A neatly packaged box of shit.
- martin_henk 7y agoOsaka is not that bad. You’re gross. Where do you come from? Probably not a major metro in the U.S. ... even if so, you’re probably in suburbs
- tlear 7y agoI live in Japan as well. Hiking.. have you actually hiked anywhere in else in the world? Most places you can fill a garbage bag in an hour just walking on a trail. Took my climbing friends from Canada on a long Hike in Kita Alps, they brought a garbage bag as they always do to gather other peoples trash. We managed to find 2 empty water bottles in 3 days having covered close to 50km. See the campsites near huts after people leave in the morning they are EMPTY. Try camping at a car camp sites.. now compare that to the clusterfuck of drunks, blaring music, trash, puke piss, shit that you get in NA. Went to Ishikawa for a week this summer camped by the sea, huge camp site tons of people actually very nice. Same thing in US? God fucking help you. This is why they actually don’t have assigned lots for tents, in Canada people would get killed every long weekend if anyone was dumb to try that(car camping) Of course there is garbage in cities in some places but compared to vast majority of the world it is clean. They actually clean public toilets.. it is a miracle.
- blhack 7y agoWhere do you camp otherwise where you are seeing all this trash? Even in developed sites I don’t think I’ve ever seen what you are describing here. Definitely nothing even remotely like that once you get a little further from the trail. There are a couple of places where people have left shotgun shells that I can think of around some of the 4 wheeling areas around Phoenix, but it’s nowhere near any sort of hiking trail.
- joeberon 7y agoJust want to say I’ve hiked significantly across the UK and there is extremely little litter
- geden 7y agoAgreed. There's very little litter in the UK countryside because (generalising) the people who litter don't go there and the people who do are included to pick it up. British towns and cities aren't great, embarrassingly bad compared to the Japanese cities I've been to. I spent a weekend in Lisbon recently and was fairly shocked at how bad the litter / rubbish was. The worst I've seen in Europe. Warm climate made it smelly too.
- h1d 7y agoI'm in Tokyo but you sound like it's clean only because others clean up after people litter freely but that is absolutely not the case here... People don't throw when it's clean, like how the NY subway changed. I've never seen people pull down mask to cough in the middle of others. You sound like running a negative campaign.
- corey_moncure 7y agoThings are changing. 15 years ago, it wasn't like this. As recently as 8 years ago you started seeing people exhibiting blatantly antisocial behavior in public, littering, not giving way in the roads, noisy devices, etc. When they open their mouths you realize they are not Japanese. The frequency of such encounters has increased steadily with time. I was in the area last year and was shocked at how bad it's gotten. Rokko-san, trashed. Garbage bags ripped open and left to lay on the streets of Osaka. It's unbearably sad to see this happening.
- CapricornNoble 7y ago>>>By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. Compared to which other cities? Bangkok, Manila, Hanoi, and Ho Chi Minh City all make even the dirty parts of Japan look like a surgical suite. Seoul, Taipei, and Hong Kong are kinda okay, roughly equivalent to Tokyo when it's a little dirty.