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Apple’s diabolical plan to screw your iPhone

161 points by kgarten 16y ago

larrik 16y ago
As someone who doesn't own an Apple laptop, I think it's completely outrageous they don't let you in to the MacBook battery. Laptops are fussy, and have the worst possible circumstances to contend with, and sometimes they really really need you to pull the battery to fix them properly (ie. very cold boot). It's certainly happened on my higher-end Lenovo.
- sigzero 16y ago
  If it bothers anyone that much I am guessing they would not buy it. That doesn't seem to be the case though.
- msy 16y ago
  As someone that's owned 4 Apple laptops over the last 9 years I've never, ever had to remove the battery to 'fix' any of them. That includes the Macbook Air that got sat on hard while sitting open and the 12" Macbook Pro that got dropped from 2m onto concrete.
  - jrnkntl 16y ago
    I had to, two times: - when I exchanged the HDD for a SSD. - when my keyboard didn't respond anymore and a strip was loose It's just the fact that they don't let you open up your owned hardware, by deliberately placing other screws.
  - orangecat 16y ago
    So you wouldn't be opening them anyway, in which case it makes no difference to you. But as an Apple shareholder, I fail to see any benefit to Apple expending resources trying to stop customers who do want access to their own hardware.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      There are two problems I can see, one I think is minor and one I think is major. The minor problem is, people open Apple hardware up, violate the warranty, break the product, put it back together again, and send it back to Apple; Apple has to expend resources already to prevent that from happening (in the same fashion as all consumer electronics companies have to expend effort to detect moisture damage). The major problem is, third party companies will open up shop performing unauthorized repairs on Apple hardware. Apple can't vouch for any of that work, many of those companies may end up damaging Apple hardware and upsetting Apple users, and Apple has a clear business interest in making it less easy for random people to enter that market.
      - xenophanes 16y ago
        Surely needing a special screwdriver won't stop someone who wants to set up a shop, at least in a first world country. It's going to be far more effective at stopping individuals from doing home repairs. The reason is the shop buys screwdrivers then uses them over and over so the price-per-use isn't very high, while the individual would buy them to use only once or twice so the price-per-use is higher.
        tptacek 16y ago
        The specific thing I was thinking of was that it would make it harder for people to open up businesses selling kits to replace parts of iPhones.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        Oh I see. Yes.
      - jessriedel 16y ago
        >...Apple has a clear business interest in making it less easy for random people to enter that market. I can see why Apple wants to do it, but wouldn't we think it wrong for Ford to seal their engine compartment with a security key that only Ford dealerships could open, preventing competing mechanics? Yes, in a frictionless economy consumers would factor this in to their purchase and not buy from Ford. But in the real world, this is a pretty easily correctable market failure (which can be traced back to the small number of competitors) which governments usually limit through competition laws.
  - jambo 16y ago
    There was sadly never a 12" Macbook Pro, but assuming you mean the Powerbook, and that it worked after a 2 meter drop, that's surprising & impressive.
    - msy 16y ago
      You are correct! It was a PowerBook, wonderful little machine. It landed on the bottom rear corner, DVD drive broke, big dent, whole case buckled a bit but continued to work perfectly otherwise.
  - bobbin_cygna 16y ago
    maybe because you have owned 4 laptops over the last 9 years.
- tptacek 16y ago
  In addition to not owning an Apple laptop, you don't appear to have read much about Apple laptops. The MacBook Pro batteries are by design not removeable; among many other reasons, this allows them to be larger. Apple literally advertises this as a major feature of the platform, so calling it "outrageous" is silly.
JonnieCache 16y ago
Nintendo hackers have been having to buy special screwdrivers for years, but they weren't completely unique like these. Still, they are unusual enough that they are commonly referred to as 'nintendo screws.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Proprietary_head http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Proprietar...
- asb 16y ago
  You can also melt the end of a Bic biro and mold it to the shape - it's not ideal, but it worked for me.
stcredzero 16y ago
Someone should make a hard polymer mold kit to create your own custom drivers on the end of a Torx tip. This would be able to adapt to any screw companies could devise, and would probably be safer from stripping the screws than improvised drivers. It would also keep repair people from asking questions about changed screws. Most importantly, it would defeat companies' attempts to keep us out of our own property. These tips wouldn't be as durable, obviously, but the typical user only needs this sort of things a few times a year.
- tseabrooks 16y ago
  This has me wondering, Couldn't I jut use sugru to make any screwdriver head I wanted? Or, does it now dry hard enough? (http://sugru.com/ http://sugru.com/)
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    How mushy is Sugru? Maybe a syringe and a tube, along with a hollow needle to defeat air bubbles. That plastic goop for fixing headlights that hardens under ultraviolet seems a likely candidate. You'd just want to make sure none of that seeped in past the screw.
  - regularfry 16y ago
    Sugru wouldn't set hard enough, and you'd have to leave it in place overnight anyway. I'd go for Polymorph (called Shapelock in the US), which sets rigid in a couple of minutes.
- aristus 16y ago
  I'll try it, but I suspect that there won't be enough strength in the plastic. Torx are designed to be set with a lot more torque than "normal" screws, hence the name.
- cosmicray 16y ago
  Someone should make the CNC milling instructions for the driver head, then open-source it under the GPL.
- 16y ago
ugh 16y ago
iFixit has awesome marketing and PR skills. Their teardowns are in all gadget blogs every time Apple comes out with a new product, they know how to jump on the right topics and they are even able to set topics (blogs already picked the story up). Not even any topic (some companies would be happy if they could do just that), topics which are directly relevant to their business. Oh, and they are also an awesome company (that certainly helps, too).
- funthree 16y ago
  The claims made are that Apple did this in part because they knew the screwdrivers would be hard to find and/or overpriced so people wouldnt be able to get in. I kind of gathered the feeling there was going to be good hack to solve this, well, the article then goes on to try and sell me that very overpriced screwdriver No thanks.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Meh. You can’t make everyone happy, some want to be contrarians just for the sake of contrarianism.
ryandvm 16y ago
Sure, you could buy this kit to replace their "pentalobular" screws with Philips. Or you could just not buy hardware from a company that thinks you're too incompetent/untrustworthy to open the device you freaking own.
- jorgem 16y ago
  That's why it's diabolical!
- tptacek 16y ago
  You can put value judgements on it like that, or you can express the exact same sentiment without emotion by saying "or, you could just not buy hermetically sealed products if you want to be able to tinker with your hardware", in which case even the Apple advocates will agree with you.
  - sudont 16y ago
    Some people actually don't care about this sort of thing. If the the computer is the only point in the workflow, sure it's like being able to open the hood and fix the work truck. It makes sense for a computer programmer to truly own the hardware. If the computer is part of a workflow, it's more like needing to work on the transmission's internals, versus just dropping a new one in. Likewise, hearing people talk about the "right to work on it" seem odd and counterproductive, because it's simply not important. Try telling a painter that he's wrong for not spending all of his free time learning how to fix and maintain a computer used to surf facebook and send an email or two.
  - nooneelse 16y ago
    But some kinds of denials between people carry with them such obvious implications of value judgments. Such as "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, because in his heart he dreams himself your master." Some people are similarly wary of any who would deny them access to their own property, reasonably thinking that perhaps such a denier, in their heart, dreams that such property is truly their own.
trotsky 16y ago
I know this practice is not uncommon, but could someone explain the business case here? Surely it doesn't seriously keep 3rd party repair shops from working on the hardware? Is it to protect the aftermarket / 1st party replacement parts business, in that consumers can't order something on ebay and do the replacement themselves? Is this really a significant enough revenue stream to these companies to justify the abuse?
- tptacek 16y ago
  Apple probably doesn't see it as "abuse" when they use proprietary fasteners for components that cannot be unfastened without violating their warranty, nor are they likely to see it as "abuse" when they prevent unrelated third parties from selling Apple customers services that can only be performed by violating the warranty. You see it as abuse, and I understand why, but from the perspective of a multi-billion-dollar business, this is not dissimilar from the people who think all non-GPL software is also abuse.
  - trotsky 16y ago
    Fair enough, but what I was really wondering was what they get out of it. Obviously they have to go through some real hurdles in designing testing and revving the fasteners and manufacturing and distributing the tools. Why do they need to "prevent" people from voiding their warranties as opposed to just detecting it via marker paint or such?
    - protomyth 16y ago
      From a support point of view (now that they run their own stores with people to repair stuff), it cuts down on the "I know what I'm doing" guy incidents. If you are competent enough to locate and buy the proper screwdrivers, you probably won't destroy anything. Everyone else will just take the thing in for repair. I am currently at a college and our PC Techs tend to get some interesting problems with PC's brought in by people who tried to repair them. It is kinda ugly.
      - 16y ago
BigZaphod 16y ago
The only people who care about this are tinkerers and hackers and those with an agenda. I find it odd that people will bitch so much about this, and yet spend hours/days/weeks/whatever digging into the internals of stuff and poking around where they weren't meant to be just for the fun of it. So Apple changed their screws, huh? Instead of bitching about it and trying to turn it into an evil conspiracy plot, how about putting those tinkerer/hacking skills to use finding elegant and creative ways around it if it's so important to you? For typical repairs, Apple offers very good warranties and one of the best return/repair services I've ever seen. It's not like you're going to save yourself a ton of time and money ordering iffy parts off eBay and tearing into the hardware yourself. If you're not doing this stuff for fun, why are you wasting your time with it in the first place? This isn't about them trying to take away your right to modify your own hardware. There's still nothing (and likely will never be anything) stopping you from taking a hammer to it, drilling out the screws, x-raying it, or whatever. I'm sure Apple doesn't care if you want to see what's inside something you own. What they do care about is people modifying or attempting repairs and then breaking it and then trying to convince Apple it was their fault. Or passing off a broken/modified device as a legit Apple product and causing customer confusion. Or perhaps these new screws simply work better in their machines, jam up less, can be screwed in faster, whatever.
- cstross 16y ago
  One word: "upgrade". If you happen to need an 11.6" Macbook Air with a 250Gb SSD rather than the max-size 128Gb one that Apple will sell you, then you need to be able to crack the case without damaging it. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Express http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Express (I have every intention of upping my Airbook to 250Gb in a few months, and it'd be nice not to have to worry about gotchas like this.)
- frossie 16y ago
  It's not like you're going to save yourself a ton of time and money I don't know how much money you have, but the price difference between replacing my failing iPhone 3G battery myself and having Apple do it was non-trivial, and the warranty did not cover it. However it is definitely not for everyone, and I for one would just let people know to include the battery replacement charge as part of an ownership cost of the product. (By the way doing this myself actually made me feel sorry for the people who have to do this all day long).
aneth 16y ago
I'm surprised this hasn't been done before, but it is possible to patent something like a screw head, thereby preventing anyone from selling screwdrivers for it. Were I part of the evil Apple conspiracy, I would suggest that. Whoops, maybe I am. Seriously though, it's not a right to dictate the type of screws used for devices you bought on the open market.
- mbrubeck 16y ago
  The Robertson (square-socket) screw was patented. Robertson's refusal to license the patents to Henry Ford is one reason it never became popular in the U.S. You can find find them in Canada, however: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson
  - aroberge 16y ago
    It's unfortunate that they did not become popular in the U.S. as they work much better than the Phillips ones: if you pick the right size (3 are standard), the screwdriver never slips, unlike what can happen with the Phillips one.
    - vl 16y ago
      Phillips was specifically designed to slip on high torque - precise torque tools where not wide-spread at the time and it was intended to prevent threading.
  - Vivtek 16y ago
    They are now de rigeur in construction applications in the US - use a motor on a Phillips head, and no matter how careful you are, you'll strip your bit sooner or later. Square bits are way more durable, and don't destroy the screws as easily. Silly Robertson.
brown9-2 16y ago
iPhones with these screws are already in the US, I bought one in late December 2010 and it appears to have the five-point screws.
jws 16y ago
On things known and unknown: Known: Those tiny Phillips screws are pretty, but they eat driver bits. Realistically, you need to buy a quality #00 to get them out without damage. $4 for a Wiha 96100 will do.[1] Known: Customers lie when they bring a product in for service. Dropped "my precious" in a toilet? An impending repair bill can have devastating effects on some people's morals. Part of your iPhone cost is the three water sensors assembled into it. You payed for those just to prevent you from lying to Apple and fraudulently claiming a warranty replacement. Unknown: How many customers go exploring in their device, compromise a seal or connection, then later incur a repair? A small number to be sure, but at Apple's scale, the extra cost of an uncommon screw is zero. (the bits for assembly probably outlast Phillips bits, it might even save a tiny bit of money) Known: A quick googling shows you can buy the uncommon pentalobe driver for $9.95 from ScrewdriversWorld, about twice the cost of a Phillips. That doesn't seem terribly well hidden or really any kind of barrier to someone that wants to install a $500-$1100 SSD upgrade. Unknown: There are a number of different 5 lobed screw patterns. I'm not positive that one I found above is the right one. Known: iFixit[2] got a great PR boost. They have driven a small nerd herd to their site to buy $9.95 screwdriver sets and for this they call Apple "diabolical"? They should be sending them a fruit basket and a nice card! [1] But you are a geek! Get the complete sets of the tiny ones including hex and Torx. [2] Don't get me wrong, I love these guys. Ah the evenings I've spent with the iFixit site, an iBook with a bad inverter cable, my full set of Wiha screwdrivers, and 24 tiny glass bowls for the beautiful tiny screws of myriad designs from each step. The entire procedure is just slightly more complicated than replacing Spock's brain.
- vacri 16y ago
  "You payed for those just to prevent you from lying to Apple and fraudulently claiming a warranty replacement." You make it sound like Apple is an innocent little child. It swings both ways - for every "amoral" customer you get claiming a warranty replacement, you'll have another "moral" customer getting short shrift from Apple (or company X) in terms of legitimate warranties not being honoured in a timely fashion or not following up on promises. When it actually comes to needing support, a lot of people find that Apple's slick sell doesn't flow into support - you take your chances and sometimes it really sucks. "$500-$1100 SSD upgrade" That's quite a tarry brush you're carrying there. A nice 120GB 2.5" SSD is all of $250 Australian dollars ($220 on newegg). A 240GB 2.5" drive is indeed $500, but I couldn't find an $1100 drive (my local may just not stock them). Regardless, you're intentionally picking the worst possible case to make your point. What about this situation: The bottom end mac pro comes with a 250GB drive (and you can't get a 500GB one). Upgrading to a 500GB drive costs less than $100 for the parts if you buy your own drive ($89 near me). Or 750GB/1TB for $115/$185? That's a decent upgrade for you computer, and it's not ridiculously expensive like you make out. I don't have a problem with countermeasures like water sensors, but to defend them by saying things like "what's the problem with buying a special screwdriver since anyone who's going to do so is going to install the most expensive SSD they can possibly find!" is just straight out apologism.
deleted 16y ago
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minalecs 16y ago
I know this may be off topic, but as I find many people find this practice acceptable from the comments, how would they feel if this was applied to other facets of goods. Example if your car manufacturer wouldn't allow you to go under your hood to bring to any repair shop but had to bring it to the dealership, or other electronics, you would have to go bring it to where you purchased it to replace the batteries ? Theres been many times I wish I could have an extra battery I could swap out on my iphone, under heavy usage and not being near a charger all day. Thats why the iphone isn't right for my needs now, because theres alternatives, but I can see how this become more of a common practice based on the success of apple.
- jamesbritt 16y ago
  "I know this may be off topic, but as I find many people find this practice acceptable from the comments, how would they feel if this was applied to other facets of goods." I don't find this acceptable at all. The rationale seems to be that some people will open up a device, break something, then try to get it covered by the warranty. But trying to prevent people from fixing their own hardware because some take advantage of it is the same backwards approach the music industry takes with digital restriction management: treat your customers like criminals.
- tintin 16y ago
  Ever tried to change a light in a modern car? For me it's just a reason to buy a car where I can change a light. It's also the reason why I don't buy an Apple PC. I want to upgrade the memory myself. Apple using custom screws: It's there product, so they decide. Apple changing the screws after a repair: That is a bad thing because maybe you bought the old Macbook because you could change the battery by yourself.
Dylanlacey 16y ago
"Apple chose this fastener specifically because it was new, guaranteeing repair tools would be both rare and expensive. Shame on them." Now, I think that manufacturers should use open standard parts that are easy for end users to deal with, but they have every right to not honor warranty claims should you go dicking around. BUT, "Shame on them?" Grow the fuck up. They later toss in a remark that their mega-bit set can no longer open "Any consumer electrical device. Thanks a lot Apple!", which I assume is meant to be humorous... But it just seems to ring true. They seem bitter they can't get this open without another tiny screwdriver. Is this kinda shitty? Well yeah. Was their reaction MASSIVELY out of proportion? Hell Yeah. Apple owe you shit all and are known for being unfriendly to those who like things modifiable. Don't fucking whinge about it, it's not like they TRICKED YOU into buying a phone with those screws. If you're REALLY that unhappy, don't buy the fucking phone. Dicks.
- mquander 16y ago
  Their reaction is a blog post and a four-minute video. No matter what Apple does, a blog post and a four-minute video is probably not a "MASSIVELY" disproportionate response. Also, if you bought a phone with some ordinary Phillips screws, take it in for service, and the technician put in some other weird screws without telling you, they actually did sort of "TRICK YOU" into the weird screws.
  - Dylanlacey 16y ago
    I was talking more about the language and hyperbole used then the length and video. Nevertheless, it might be "tricking" you, but do people REALLY buy from Apple expecting to not get a tightly closed product? "Oh, I bought this raptor, but I didn't EXPECT him to eat your son, I'm SO sorry!"
Someone 16y ago
I am not convinced this is the whole truth. Let's try and separate facts from opinion. Apple using these screws is a fact, "Apple chose this fastener specifically because it was new, guaranteeing repair tools would be both rare and expensive", from what I can tell, is an opinion. I could find two arguments for that being a fact in the article. The first one is that these screws are only used on the outside of the devices. However, the screws on the outside likely also are the ones that are fastened with the most torque, and they also can the only ones connecting two particular materials. So, it could also be that these are just the technically best choice for the application. The second argument I could find is the claim "Apple occasionally refers to these as “Pentalobe security screws.”" however, Google didn't turn up anything for a search for 'pentalobe' on Apple.com. Finally, Apple being Apple, these screws might even have been chosen because their color best matches the case, are the ones that could be painted white best, or to prevent cases where the alignment of visible lines with the edges of the display of a square or rectangular screw would occasionally be 'just not right'. My opinion? Making stuff hard to open may have been an objective, but I am not convinced it was the or even the major reason for choosing these fasteners.
- kwiens 16y ago
  The source for "Pentalobe security screws" is Apple's internal service manual, which is not publicly available. The tamper-resistant goal is evident from the context. You'll either have to trust me on that or find an Apple authorized technician to verify from the manual.

161 points by kgarten 16y ago

As someone who doesn't own an Apple laptop, I think it's completely outrageous they don't let you in to the MacBook battery. Laptops are fussy, and have the worst possible circumstances to contend with, and sometimes they really really need you to pull the battery to fix them properly (ie. very cold boot). It's certainly happened on my higher-end Lenovo.

sigzero 16y ago
If it bothers anyone that much I am guessing they would not buy it. That doesn't seem to be the case though.
msy 16y ago
As someone that's owned 4 Apple laptops over the last 9 years I've never, ever had to remove the battery to 'fix' any of them. That includes the Macbook Air that got sat on hard while sitting open and the 12" Macbook Pro that got dropped from 2m onto concrete.
- jrnkntl 16y ago
  I had to, two times: - when I exchanged the HDD for a SSD. - when my keyboard didn't respond anymore and a strip was loose It's just the fact that they don't let you open up your owned hardware, by deliberately placing other screws.
- orangecat 16y ago
  So you wouldn't be opening them anyway, in which case it makes no difference to you. But as an Apple shareholder, I fail to see any benefit to Apple expending resources trying to stop customers who do want access to their own hardware.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    There are two problems I can see, one I think is minor and one I think is major. The minor problem is, people open Apple hardware up, violate the warranty, break the product, put it back together again, and send it back to Apple; Apple has to expend resources already to prevent that from happening (in the same fashion as all consumer electronics companies have to expend effort to detect moisture damage). The major problem is, third party companies will open up shop performing unauthorized repairs on Apple hardware. Apple can't vouch for any of that work, many of those companies may end up damaging Apple hardware and upsetting Apple users, and Apple has a clear business interest in making it less easy for random people to enter that market.
    - xenophanes 16y ago
      Surely needing a special screwdriver won't stop someone who wants to set up a shop, at least in a first world country. It's going to be far more effective at stopping individuals from doing home repairs. The reason is the shop buys screwdrivers then uses them over and over so the price-per-use isn't very high, while the individual would buy them to use only once or twice so the price-per-use is higher.
      - tptacek 16y ago
        The specific thing I was thinking of was that it would make it harder for people to open up businesses selling kits to replace parts of iPhones.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        Oh I see. Yes.
    - jessriedel 16y ago
      >...Apple has a clear business interest in making it less easy for random people to enter that market. I can see why Apple wants to do it, but wouldn't we think it wrong for Ford to seal their engine compartment with a security key that only Ford dealerships could open, preventing competing mechanics? Yes, in a frictionless economy consumers would factor this in to their purchase and not buy from Ford. But in the real world, this is a pretty easily correctable market failure (which can be traced back to the small number of competitors) which governments usually limit through competition laws.
- jambo 16y ago
  There was sadly never a 12" Macbook Pro, but assuming you mean the Powerbook, and that it worked after a 2 meter drop, that's surprising & impressive.
  - msy 16y ago
    You are correct! It was a PowerBook, wonderful little machine. It landed on the bottom rear corner, DVD drive broke, big dent, whole case buckled a bit but continued to work perfectly otherwise.
- bobbin_cygna 16y ago
  maybe because you have owned 4 laptops over the last 9 years.
tptacek 16y ago
In addition to not owning an Apple laptop, you don't appear to have read much about Apple laptops. The MacBook Pro batteries are by design not removeable; among many other reasons, this allows them to be larger. Apple literally advertises this as a major feature of the platform, so calling it "outrageous" is silly.

JonnieCache 16y ago

Nintendo hackers have been having to buy special screwdrivers for years, but they weren't completely unique like these. Still, they are unusual enough that they are commonly referred to as 'nintendo screws.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Proprietary_head http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Proprietar...

asb 16y ago
You can also melt the end of a Bic biro and mold it to the shape - it's not ideal, but it worked for me.

stcredzero 16y ago

Someone should make a hard polymer mold kit to create your own custom drivers on the end of a Torx tip. This would be able to adapt to any screw companies could devise, and would probably be safer from stripping the screws than improvised drivers. It would also keep repair people from asking questions about changed screws. Most importantly, it would defeat companies' attempts to keep us out of our own property. These tips wouldn't be as durable, obviously, but the typical user only needs this sort of things a few times a year.

tseabrooks 16y ago
This has me wondering, Couldn't I jut use sugru to make any screwdriver head I wanted? Or, does it now dry hard enough? (http://sugru.com/ http://sugru.com/)
- stcredzero 16y ago
  How mushy is Sugru? Maybe a syringe and a tube, along with a hollow needle to defeat air bubbles. That plastic goop for fixing headlights that hardens under ultraviolet seems a likely candidate. You'd just want to make sure none of that seeped in past the screw.
- regularfry 16y ago
  Sugru wouldn't set hard enough, and you'd have to leave it in place overnight anyway. I'd go for Polymorph (called Shapelock in the US), which sets rigid in a couple of minutes.
aristus 16y ago
I'll try it, but I suspect that there won't be enough strength in the plastic. Torx are designed to be set with a lot more torque than "normal" screws, hence the name.
cosmicray 16y ago
Someone should make the CNC milling instructions for the driver head, then open-source it under the GPL.
16y ago

ugh 16y ago

iFixit has awesome marketing and PR skills. Their teardowns are in all gadget blogs every time Apple comes out with a new product, they know how to jump on the right topics and they are even able to set topics (blogs already picked the story up). Not even any topic (some companies would be happy if they could do just that), topics which are directly relevant to their business. Oh, and they are also an awesome company (that certainly helps, too).

funthree 16y ago
The claims made are that Apple did this in part because they knew the screwdrivers would be hard to find and/or overpriced so people wouldnt be able to get in. I kind of gathered the feeling there was going to be good hack to solve this, well, the article then goes on to try and sell me that very overpriced screwdriver No thanks.
- ugh 16y ago
  Meh. You can’t make everyone happy, some want to be contrarians just for the sake of contrarianism.

ryandvm 16y ago

Sure, you could buy this kit to replace their "pentalobular" screws with Philips. Or you could just not buy hardware from a company that thinks you're too incompetent/untrustworthy to open the device you freaking own.

jorgem 16y ago
That's why it's diabolical!
tptacek 16y ago
You can put value judgements on it like that, or you can express the exact same sentiment without emotion by saying "or, you could just not buy hermetically sealed products if you want to be able to tinker with your hardware", in which case even the Apple advocates will agree with you.
- sudont 16y ago
  Some people actually don't care about this sort of thing. If the the computer is the only point in the workflow, sure it's like being able to open the hood and fix the work truck. It makes sense for a computer programmer to truly own the hardware. If the computer is part of a workflow, it's more like needing to work on the transmission's internals, versus just dropping a new one in. Likewise, hearing people talk about the "right to work on it" seem odd and counterproductive, because it's simply not important. Try telling a painter that he's wrong for not spending all of his free time learning how to fix and maintain a computer used to surf facebook and send an email or two.
- nooneelse 16y ago
  But some kinds of denials between people carry with them such obvious implications of value judgments. Such as "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, because in his heart he dreams himself your master." Some people are similarly wary of any who would deny them access to their own property, reasonably thinking that perhaps such a denier, in their heart, dreams that such property is truly their own.

trotsky 16y ago

I know this practice is not uncommon, but could someone explain the business case here? Surely it doesn't seriously keep 3rd party repair shops from working on the hardware? Is it to protect the aftermarket / 1st party replacement parts business, in that consumers can't order something on ebay and do the replacement themselves? Is this really a significant enough revenue stream to these companies to justify the abuse?

tptacek 16y ago
Apple probably doesn't see it as "abuse" when they use proprietary fasteners for components that cannot be unfastened without violating their warranty, nor are they likely to see it as "abuse" when they prevent unrelated third parties from selling Apple customers services that can only be performed by violating the warranty. You see it as abuse, and I understand why, but from the perspective of a multi-billion-dollar business, this is not dissimilar from the people who think all non-GPL software is also abuse.
- trotsky 16y ago
  Fair enough, but what I was really wondering was what they get out of it. Obviously they have to go through some real hurdles in designing testing and revving the fasteners and manufacturing and distributing the tools. Why do they need to "prevent" people from voiding their warranties as opposed to just detecting it via marker paint or such?
  - protomyth 16y ago
    From a support point of view (now that they run their own stores with people to repair stuff), it cuts down on the "I know what I'm doing" guy incidents. If you are competent enough to locate and buy the proper screwdrivers, you probably won't destroy anything. Everyone else will just take the thing in for repair. I am currently at a college and our PC Techs tend to get some interesting problems with PC's brought in by people who tried to repair them. It is kinda ugly.
    - 16y ago

BigZaphod 16y ago

The only people who care about this are tinkerers and hackers and those with an agenda. I find it odd that people will bitch so much about this, and yet spend hours/days/weeks/whatever digging into the internals of stuff and poking around where they weren't meant to be just for the fun of it. So Apple changed their screws, huh? Instead of bitching about it and trying to turn it into an evil conspiracy plot, how about putting those tinkerer/hacking skills to use finding elegant and creative ways around it if it's so important to you? For typical repairs, Apple offers very good warranties and one of the best return/repair services I've ever seen. It's not like you're going to save yourself a ton of time and money ordering iffy parts off eBay and tearing into the hardware yourself. If you're not doing this stuff for fun, why are you wasting your time with it in the first place? This isn't about them trying to take away your right to modify your own hardware. There's still nothing (and likely will never be anything) stopping you from taking a hammer to it, drilling out the screws, x-raying it, or whatever. I'm sure Apple doesn't care if you want to see what's inside something you own. What they do care about is people modifying or attempting repairs and then breaking it and then trying to convince Apple it was their fault. Or passing off a broken/modified device as a legit Apple product and causing customer confusion. Or perhaps these new screws simply work better in their machines, jam up less, can be screwed in faster, whatever.

cstross 16y ago
One word: "upgrade". If you happen to need an 11.6" Macbook Air with a 250Gb SSD rather than the max-size 128Gb one that Apple will sell you, then you need to be able to crack the case without damaging it. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Express http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Express (I have every intention of upping my Airbook to 250Gb in a few months, and it'd be nice not to have to worry about gotchas like this.)
frossie 16y ago
It's not like you're going to save yourself a ton of time and money I don't know how much money you have, but the price difference between replacing my failing iPhone 3G battery myself and having Apple do it was non-trivial, and the warranty did not cover it. However it is definitely not for everyone, and I for one would just let people know to include the battery replacement charge as part of an ownership cost of the product. (By the way doing this myself actually made me feel sorry for the people who have to do this all day long).

aneth 16y ago

I'm surprised this hasn't been done before, but it is possible to patent something like a screw head, thereby preventing anyone from selling screwdrivers for it. Were I part of the evil Apple conspiracy, I would suggest that. Whoops, maybe I am. Seriously though, it's not a right to dictate the type of screws used for devices you bought on the open market.

mbrubeck 16y ago
The Robertson (square-socket) screw was patented. Robertson's refusal to license the patents to Henry Ford is one reason it never became popular in the U.S. You can find find them in Canada, however: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson
- aroberge 16y ago
  It's unfortunate that they did not become popular in the U.S. as they work much better than the Phillips ones: if you pick the right size (3 are standard), the screwdriver never slips, unlike what can happen with the Phillips one.
  - vl 16y ago
    Phillips was specifically designed to slip on high torque - precise torque tools where not wide-spread at the time and it was intended to prevent threading.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  They are now de rigeur in construction applications in the US - use a motor on a Phillips head, and no matter how careful you are, you'll strip your bit sooner or later. Square bits are way more durable, and don't destroy the screws as easily. Silly Robertson.

brown9-2 16y ago

iPhones with these screws are already in the US, I bought one in late December 2010 and it appears to have the five-point screws.

jws 16y ago

On things known and unknown: Known: Those tiny Phillips screws are pretty, but they eat driver bits. Realistically, you need to buy a quality #00 to get them out without damage. $4 for a Wiha 96100 will do.[1] Known: Customers lie when they bring a product in for service. Dropped "my precious" in a toilet? An impending repair bill can have devastating effects on some people's morals. Part of your iPhone cost is the three water sensors assembled into it. You payed for those just to prevent you from lying to Apple and fraudulently claiming a warranty replacement. Unknown: How many customers go exploring in their device, compromise a seal or connection, then later incur a repair? A small number to be sure, but at Apple's scale, the extra cost of an uncommon screw is zero. (the bits for assembly probably outlast Phillips bits, it might even save a tiny bit of money) Known: A quick googling shows you can buy the uncommon pentalobe driver for $9.95 from ScrewdriversWorld, about twice the cost of a Phillips. That doesn't seem terribly well hidden or really any kind of barrier to someone that wants to install a $500-$1100 SSD upgrade. Unknown: There are a number of different 5 lobed screw patterns. I'm not positive that one I found above is the right one. Known: iFixit[2] got a great PR boost. They have driven a small nerd herd to their site to buy $9.95 screwdriver sets and for this they call Apple "diabolical"? They should be sending them a fruit basket and a nice card! [1] But you are a geek! Get the complete sets of the tiny ones including hex and Torx. [2] Don't get me wrong, I love these guys. Ah the evenings I've spent with the iFixit site, an iBook with a bad inverter cable, my full set of Wiha screwdrivers, and 24 tiny glass bowls for the beautiful tiny screws of myriad designs from each step. The entire procedure is just slightly more complicated than replacing Spock's brain.

vacri 16y ago
"You payed for those just to prevent you from lying to Apple and fraudulently claiming a warranty replacement." You make it sound like Apple is an innocent little child. It swings both ways - for every "amoral" customer you get claiming a warranty replacement, you'll have another "moral" customer getting short shrift from Apple (or company X) in terms of legitimate warranties not being honoured in a timely fashion or not following up on promises. When it actually comes to needing support, a lot of people find that Apple's slick sell doesn't flow into support - you take your chances and sometimes it really sucks. "$500-$1100 SSD upgrade" That's quite a tarry brush you're carrying there. A nice 120GB 2.5" SSD is all of $250 Australian dollars ($220 on newegg). A 240GB 2.5" drive is indeed $500, but I couldn't find an $1100 drive (my local may just not stock them). Regardless, you're intentionally picking the worst possible case to make your point. What about this situation: The bottom end mac pro comes with a 250GB drive (and you can't get a 500GB one). Upgrading to a 500GB drive costs less than $100 for the parts if you buy your own drive ($89 near me). Or 750GB/1TB for $115/$185? That's a decent upgrade for you computer, and it's not ridiculously expensive like you make out. I don't have a problem with countermeasures like water sensors, but to defend them by saying things like "what's the problem with buying a special screwdriver since anyone who's going to do so is going to install the most expensive SSD they can possibly find!" is just straight out apologism.

deleted 16y ago

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minalecs 16y ago

I know this may be off topic, but as I find many people find this practice acceptable from the comments, how would they feel if this was applied to other facets of goods. Example if your car manufacturer wouldn't allow you to go under your hood to bring to any repair shop but had to bring it to the dealership, or other electronics, you would have to go bring it to where you purchased it to replace the batteries ? Theres been many times I wish I could have an extra battery I could swap out on my iphone, under heavy usage and not being near a charger all day. Thats why the iphone isn't right for my needs now, because theres alternatives, but I can see how this become more of a common practice based on the success of apple.

jamesbritt 16y ago
"I know this may be off topic, but as I find many people find this practice acceptable from the comments, how would they feel if this was applied to other facets of goods." I don't find this acceptable at all. The rationale seems to be that some people will open up a device, break something, then try to get it covered by the warranty. But trying to prevent people from fixing their own hardware because some take advantage of it is the same backwards approach the music industry takes with digital restriction management: treat your customers like criminals.
tintin 16y ago
Ever tried to change a light in a modern car? For me it's just a reason to buy a car where I can change a light. It's also the reason why I don't buy an Apple PC. I want to upgrade the memory myself. Apple using custom screws: It's there product, so they decide. Apple changing the screws after a repair: That is a bad thing because maybe you bought the old Macbook because you could change the battery by yourself.

Dylanlacey 16y ago

"Apple chose this fastener specifically because it was new, guaranteeing repair tools would be both rare and expensive. Shame on them." Now, I think that manufacturers should use open standard parts that are easy for end users to deal with, but they have every right to not honor warranty claims should you go dicking around. BUT, "Shame on them?" Grow the fuck up. They later toss in a remark that their mega-bit set can no longer open "Any consumer electrical device. Thanks a lot Apple!", which I assume is meant to be humorous... But it just seems to ring true. They seem bitter they can't get this open without another tiny screwdriver. Is this kinda shitty? Well yeah. Was their reaction MASSIVELY out of proportion? Hell Yeah. Apple owe you shit all and are known for being unfriendly to those who like things modifiable. Don't fucking whinge about it, it's not like they TRICKED YOU into buying a phone with those screws. If you're REALLY that unhappy, don't buy the fucking phone. Dicks.

mquander 16y ago
Their reaction is a blog post and a four-minute video. No matter what Apple does, a blog post and a four-minute video is probably not a "MASSIVELY" disproportionate response. Also, if you bought a phone with some ordinary Phillips screws, take it in for service, and the technician put in some other weird screws without telling you, they actually did sort of "TRICK YOU" into the weird screws.
- Dylanlacey 16y ago
  I was talking more about the language and hyperbole used then the length and video. Nevertheless, it might be "tricking" you, but do people REALLY buy from Apple expecting to not get a tightly closed product? "Oh, I bought this raptor, but I didn't EXPECT him to eat your son, I'm SO sorry!"

Someone 16y ago

I am not convinced this is the whole truth. Let's try and separate facts from opinion. Apple using these screws is a fact, "Apple chose this fastener specifically because it was new, guaranteeing repair tools would be both rare and expensive", from what I can tell, is an opinion. I could find two arguments for that being a fact in the article. The first one is that these screws are only used on the outside of the devices. However, the screws on the outside likely also are the ones that are fastened with the most torque, and they also can the only ones connecting two particular materials. So, it could also be that these are just the technically best choice for the application. The second argument I could find is the claim "Apple occasionally refers to these as “Pentalobe security screws.”" however, Google didn't turn up anything for a search for 'pentalobe' on Apple.com. Finally, Apple being Apple, these screws might even have been chosen because their color best matches the case, are the ones that could be painted white best, or to prevent cases where the alignment of visible lines with the edges of the display of a square or rectangular screw would occasionally be 'just not right'. My opinion? Making stuff hard to open may have been an objective, but I am not convinced it was the or even the major reason for choosing these fasteners.

kwiens 16y ago
The source for "Pentalobe security screws" is Apple's internal service manual, which is not publicly available. The tamper-resistant goal is evident from the context. You'll either have to trust me on that or find an Apple authorized technician to verify from the manual.