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This is an interesting read, but I don't think it's fair to judge someone by who they hung out with a few times. I wish we didn't live in a world where someone

by breck 7y ago

This is an interesting read, but I don't think it's fair to judge someone by who they hung out with a few times. I wish we didn't live in a world where someone has to say they "Regret" hanging out with someone. If you could not hang out with people that have made mistakes, you could not hang out with anyone. If you could not hang out with people who have criminal records, among the people you could not hang out with would be MLK. I grew up in a poorer city where a few of the people I hung out with are in jail for long sentences, or drug dealers, or dead from drugs. Do I regret hanging out with them? No. If you run away from anything you are told is bad or evil you are going to live in a bubble. That shows cowardice and not courage. Better to use your brain and think for yourself (and not engage in the bad behavior or condone it, but not flip the bozo bit on anyone who has been accused of anything). Does that mean I'm a bad person? Do Emily Flitter and James B. Stewart only hang out with perfect angels?

blazespin 7y ago
Presumably there is a lot more the NYT didn't report because it was unsubstantiated. You don't write these kind of pieces against someone super powerful for no reason.
- craigc 7y ago
  I agree there is a lot they left out, but as I posted elsewhere in this thread, I think the Times actually went extremely lightly on Bill Gates. It read to me like his PR team authored it. Seems almost like they are trying to get ahead of some new information that may soon come to light.
Barrin92 7y ago
What exactly went on in your head that made you in all seriousness compare Martin Luther King to someone who was at the time in question already convicted of child sex trafficking. That is the most obscene thing I've read in a while. I don't even care about people who do drugs, but someone who exploits children, seriously? That isn't just some random mistake, let alone ethical protest against an unjust law, it's one of the vilest crimes anyone can engage in.
- breck 7y ago
  > it's one of the vilest crimes anyone can engage in. You realize that you yourself are in all probability the descendant of many people who engaged in what you call "one of the vilest crimes"? But we don't even have to go back in time to see how your argument is intellectually phony. The current age of consent in Nigeria is 11 years old. The age of consent in the Philippines is 12 years old. Are you saying that people in Nigeria and Philippines are the most vilest criminals of all? I for one am for our older age of consent(although I think it ludicrous when we arrest 18 year olds for having a relationship with 17 year olds), but I'm not going to lie and say there is anything morally wrong with a lower age of consent. If an asteroid hits earth tomorrow and wipes out 80% of the population, you better believe that suddenly no one will bat an eye that the age of consent becomes 13. I'm not defending Epstein—I have no idea the details, other than that a great injustice was committed by his "suicide" (murder or assisted suicide, the suicide without a qualifier is laughable) because that meant we may never hear the true story of what went down. I didn't know MLK either. I'm not comparing them. I'm saying that being accused of something or even having a criminal record is not a reason to not associate with someone, without using your own mind and thinking for yourself, as many of the greatest moral heroes in history are people with criminal records. I would have loved to hear Epstein's side of the story. But instead, some people ended or helped end his life (a gross failure of the U.S. Goverment), and so we won't hear it. Now, perhaps the details of Epstein are horrible and involve violence etc--in that case, yes perhaps someone should have stayed away if they deemed the crimes were true. Maybe I should look up the details more before I comment, I dunno. I just am giving my take to say, slow down with the pitchforks.
  - blub 7y ago
    We've evolved in the mean time, and we evaluate current events based on our current standards, not what happened thousands of years ago or what would happen in doomsday scenarios. 11 and 12 year olds are powerless in relationships with adults, they are biologically and intellectually still children. There are few things that I think are absolutely morally wrong, but this is one of them. Those people from Nigeria and Philippines that engage in such practices are definitely vile persons. Taking advantage of someone that can't defend themselves is the very definition of vile.
msghacq 7y ago
He had already been convicted of child rape when Bill Gates started hanging out with him. Gates deserves the scrutiny here.

by breck 7y ago

blazespin 7y ago

Presumably there is a lot more the NYT didn't report because it was unsubstantiated. You don't write these kind of pieces against someone super powerful for no reason.

craigc 7y ago
I agree there is a lot they left out, but as I posted elsewhere in this thread, I think the Times actually went extremely lightly on Bill Gates. It read to me like his PR team authored it. Seems almost like they are trying to get ahead of some new information that may soon come to light.

Barrin92 7y ago

What exactly went on in your head that made you in all seriousness compare Martin Luther King to someone who was at the time in question already convicted of child sex trafficking. That is the most obscene thing I've read in a while. I don't even care about people who do drugs, but someone who exploits children, seriously? That isn't just some random mistake, let alone ethical protest against an unjust law, it's one of the vilest crimes anyone can engage in.

breck 7y ago
> it's one of the vilest crimes anyone can engage in. You realize that you yourself are in all probability the descendant of many people who engaged in what you call "one of the vilest crimes"? But we don't even have to go back in time to see how your argument is intellectually phony. The current age of consent in Nigeria is 11 years old. The age of consent in the Philippines is 12 years old. Are you saying that people in Nigeria and Philippines are the most vilest criminals of all? I for one am for our older age of consent(although I think it ludicrous when we arrest 18 year olds for having a relationship with 17 year olds), but I'm not going to lie and say there is anything morally wrong with a lower age of consent. If an asteroid hits earth tomorrow and wipes out 80% of the population, you better believe that suddenly no one will bat an eye that the age of consent becomes 13. I'm not defending Epstein—I have no idea the details, other than that a great injustice was committed by his "suicide" (murder or assisted suicide, the suicide without a qualifier is laughable) because that meant we may never hear the true story of what went down. I didn't know MLK either. I'm not comparing them. I'm saying that being accused of something or even having a criminal record is not a reason to not associate with someone, without using your own mind and thinking for yourself, as many of the greatest moral heroes in history are people with criminal records. I would have loved to hear Epstein's side of the story. But instead, some people ended or helped end his life (a gross failure of the U.S. Goverment), and so we won't hear it. Now, perhaps the details of Epstein are horrible and involve violence etc--in that case, yes perhaps someone should have stayed away if they deemed the crimes were true. Maybe I should look up the details more before I comment, I dunno. I just am giving my take to say, slow down with the pitchforks.
- blub 7y ago
  We've evolved in the mean time, and we evaluate current events based on our current standards, not what happened thousands of years ago or what would happen in doomsday scenarios. 11 and 12 year olds are powerless in relationships with adults, they are biologically and intellectually still children. There are few things that I think are absolutely morally wrong, but this is one of them. Those people from Nigeria and Philippines that engage in such practices are definitely vile persons. Taking advantage of someone that can't defend themselves is the very definition of vile.

msghacq 7y ago

He had already been convicted of child rape when Bill Gates started hanging out with him. Gates deserves the scrutiny here.