9 ms·

Amazon stops charitable donations via Amazon Smile if you turn off notifications

235 points by rahuldottech 7y ago

cwkoss 7y ago
Amazon has recently started providing third party sellers for 'fulfilled by Amazon' orders with all of your personal information. There is no reason for them to have this. I've gotten three marketing postcards and have a persistent Facebook ad that started appearing from a brand the day after I ordered one of their products. Don't buy stuff on Amazon if you don't want the third party seller to get all your info.
- bsamuels 7y ago
  My burner google voice number I use for amazon started getting a ton of spam calls after I ordered from a drop shipper. Wonder if that's how they got my number.
- verdverm 7y ago
  And you'll never know if you get the real thing with all the counterfeits they mix in
- ilamont 7y ago
  Amazon has made this information available to Pro Sellers for years. I think the original logic was if there was a problem with the order (missing part, defective product, etc.) the seller could send a replacement without having to ask Amazon for the customer's contact info. As an Amazon customer, I have never received marketing mail separately from the item I ordered. However, almost all orders include a printed postcard or slip of paper saying something to the effect of "If there's a problem with the order, contact us, but if you like the product please leave a review."
  - cwkoss 7y ago
    These were mailed separately, which is what surprised me. When I left a negative review, Amazon removed it because it's "not about the product". Appears their new policy is to provide customer name, address, email and phone to third party sellers. Postcard's call to action was to visit a URL. Luckily I opened it in a incognito tab, because the URL redirected to try to use a logged in Facebook messenger session to send the brand a message.
    - astura 7y ago
      They do not provide your email address to third party sellers, the only way to email a buyer is through Amazon. I don't ever recall ever seeing a buyer's phone number, but I have also never looked for it. You've always been able to see a buyer's name and address, including for FBA orders, that not a new policy.
    - AnssiH 7y ago
      > When I left a negative review, Amazon removed it because it's "not about the product". Product reviews are not seller specific so you cannot include seller-specific complaints there. You need to leave a negative seller feedback instead, those are separate from product reviews.
- wormseed 7y ago
  Amazon changed this because many recent lawsuits have used the fact there's no direct buyer seller relationship to argue Amazon should be liable for defective products instead of the seller.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    So they reduce their liability by giving away more personal information. What an ass-backwards system.
- ketralnis 7y ago
  Their customer service reps also vigorously deny it
- craftyguy 7y ago
  > and have a persistent Facebook ad You're concerned about Amazon giving your personal information to 3rd parties, and yet you use facebook? Sorry, but, lol.
- astura 7y ago
  Recently? They've always provided your personal information to third party FBA sellers. At least since 2015 which is when I started FBA. I've always been able to view the name/address my order was shipped to.
jgwil2 7y ago
This is really crummy. If they want to support charities, just do it. I already have to buy from them for them to make a donation. Now I have to grant invasive permissions as well?
- 0zymandiass 7y ago
  They don't want to support charities. They want to get people that want that to spend more money with them. They did the math, and the number of people that will say "no" to that permission is significantly smaller than the amount of money they make from forcing that permission in order to get them to give their scraps to charities.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    Even better, they want cheap advertising from charities. Plenty of charities broadcast to their network that you should go set up Amazon Smile to support that charity. And thus you get charities advertising for Amazon.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Associating a charitable donation with a transaction is all about exploiting opportunities for price discrimination. The fundamental problem of selling things was always that you had to set one price, unless it was a big-ticket thing that people haggle over. With one price, it's too high for some people, so you lose the potential profit from selling to them at a lower price, and some people buy, but would pay more, so you lose the extra profit from charging them the maximum it is worth to them. Being willing to donate during a transaction is a valuable hint that you would pay more if you had to. I've been avoiding Amazon for a while, but I wanted a product recently that was only on Amazon, and as I clicked through the shipping options, and refused Amazon Prime for the nth time, they jacked up the price by like $5. So I abandoned the order. But I guess their techniques work at scale. My hope is that somehow, their algorithms to discriminate in pricing cause them to self-destruct eventually. In the meantime, I think this is a major part of the dynamic making people feel, and be, poorer - during the past decade there has just been a revolution in eliminating consumer surplus and converting it into producer surplus, and that's where all the corporate growth/wealth is coming from.
clintonb 7y ago
I wasn’t aware they had an app. I agree that require notifications for donations is not ideal, but there is an easy workaround: use the website.
- Paul-ish 7y ago
  Their mobile website works great. The mobile app is superfluous.
- petra 7y ago
  Another workaround - block the notifications at the OS, not inside the app.
verdverm 7y ago
I closed all of my Amazon accounts about a year ago, now I buy so much less crap I never needed. The only thing I miss is books... can't always find them with local stores, even on order. I had to go through all those "are you really, really sure?" Only to be required to call them after all that and say, YES! I AM SURE #BoycottBezos Because the only good thing he can think to do with his money is go to space. Maybe he's doing this so he can keep the profits and try to catch Elon
- siruncledrew 7y ago
  In a galaxy far, far away... the battle rages on between the Imperial Blue Origin and the Rebel SpaceX. Planets are in chaos as Sith Lord Bezos faces his long adversary Obi Elon Kenobi over the fate of the government of the beings and droids.
  - verdverm 7y ago
    Lex Bezos v. Tony Musk, they look the parts. Elon, please grow a goatee
- lokeshk 7y ago
  I don’t have any personal objections with how Bezos decides to use his money, but to your point of books — how’s your local library? I recently realized I was spending some non-negligible amount of money on books every month and switched to the local library. It obviously depends on where you live but I’ve been pleasantly surprised. It’s a fantastic system of local libraries and they’ve all the titles I want to read. There’s a wait for new titles, like Snowden’s book will need me to wait a couple of months, but anything older than a year is almost always available. As the book loan is for 21 days, it also forces me to finish my reading within this time.
  - verdverm 7y ago
    I prefer to purchase. I like to go back and re-read sections that are relevant to the current thoughts I'm having. I read 99% non-fiction I do super miss my college library
chiefalchemist 7y ago
I don't understand why so many people support Amazon so much. Everything week there seems to be another story that makes me think "scumbags" or "asshole." As long as they keep getting money their behavior will not chamge.
- tracer4201 7y ago
  Theres a story about one of the FAANGs just about every day... and these stories are published by outlets who directly compete with these companies in terms of views, clicks, as views, publishing, etc. Not defending the tech giants but saying they’re horrible because you read about them everyday is only part of the story. Those stories are laid out in front of you by the very people who have vested interests against Amazons and the Googles of the world.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    But this is a thread on Reddit..
  - skinnymuch 7y ago
    No outlet published this. It is a user on reddit.
- didibus 7y ago
  The articles mostly just repeat the same 3 complaints. 1) They employ a lot of people for doing shitty work. But they're not making those jobs worse, the jobs just suck, and the same jobs elsewhere are just as bad and often pays less. But people don't really want to address the societal root cause, and frown upon talks of increasing minimum wage, setting worker rights regulations, and promoting unionization. So I just see Amazon as a scapegoat for the fact no one really cares. 2) They struggle with quality control, which I've never particularly experienced. And I feel this is true of all big platforms in the internet era. Also, it's normal at their scale, even if only 1% of products have quality issues, that's like millions of orders to write news about. Maybe my local store also has about 1% of issues, but it just doesn't make headlines. The flip side is Amazon has awesome support and return policies. 3) They're killing local stores. I guess I just see that as healthy competition. Amazon just offers a really convenient service. I don't have to leave my house to buy stuff! That's awesome. Also, I see it more as internet shopping is killing local stores. If Amazon goes bust, it'll be some other online store. Driving your car to buy goods just no longer makes sense with the internet in my opinion, unless its goods you have to try out or inspect first. Lastly, I find the real local outlets, like straight from farms markets, hand made artisan shops etc. are competing quite well and not dying. Etsy is doing great for example. So it's more the non competitive middleman that are dying, and that's just healthy competition in my mind. They have to offer a better middleman service, or wait for Amazon to get lazy and stop offering a good service, which they haven't yet.
devicetray0 7y ago
That must just be for purchases through the app? Yesterday, I went to amazon.com and the website reminded me that I wasn't using the Smile (charity) portal and had a button to redirect me to smile.amazon.com. I smiled at that non-dark-pattern. I don't have the app...
- wj 7y ago
  I get that too from time to time and I feel like it happens if I have a referral cookie set or arrived from a direct referral link and added an item to my cart. The half a percent they give your charity is less than the referral commission. Overall I am very happy to be able to passively support my charity of choice this way.
  - patd 7y ago
    And it’s probably tax deductible
    - Thorrez 7y ago
      Aren't all business expenses tax deductible?
    - gnicholas 7y ago
      I’d say the deduction would be claimed by Amazon, and the IRS wouldn’t allow the customer to claim it. And as a sibling commenter mentioned, for businesses it doesn’t matter if it’s a charitable donation or business expense.
- vpzom 7y ago
  But why is it a separate website in the first place?
  - toddmorey 7y ago
    I’ve never, ever understood this
adg29 7y ago
Dark patterns are often justified as trying to gain more of a user’s/customer’s attention, as seen to be the case here. IMHO, this is Amazon shrewdly introducing limits to their charity. Whether it be a functional constraint or a dark pattern, user’s attention is being exchanged for agency of charity on behalf of the consumer. A quick search on Twitter leads me to believe there is a feedback cycle Amazon leveraged with notifications about the Smile program. Consumers buy, notifications of their charity are pushed, Amazon profits. Repeat cycle. Amazon profits.
- RonanTheGrey 7y ago
  I think we all know the answer to that.
- dictum 7y ago
  If one considers absence of desire to take a certain approach as a constraint, anything can be a legit constraint.
tracer4201 7y ago
This seems to be a dark pattern that has recently caught on. If you try to add your tickets in the United App to your Apple wallet, the app stops you saying the feature requires you to enable notifications.
- applecrazy 7y ago
  That seems to be a violation of Apple’s guidelines for apps. edit: seems to violate 3.2.2(vi) or 3.2.2(ix) of the App Store Review guidelines
- tyfon 7y ago
  Can't you stop notifications from displaying on specific apps in iphone? I've been able to do that for a couple years on my sony phone.
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    OP is saying that when they do disable notifications, the app won’t let them add the pass to their Wallet.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- sjg007 7y ago
  I find that airlines tickets in Wallet will update automatically if the gate or boarding times change. Maybe it is related to that?
sdtransier 7y ago
There's a great Safari extension on Mac called SmileAllDay that will automatically redirect you to the Smile version of Amazon. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/smileallday/id1180442868?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/smileallday/id1180442868?mt=12
- coolspot 7y ago
  Also “Smile Always” for Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmhnmjbhgkhpbgelalfpplebgfjmbf?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmh... And Amazon smile! For FF: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/amazon-smile/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/amazon-smile/
karlh 7y ago
Better to donate directly to causes you support or through places like Kiva.org (yeah, I know they have their issues too, but still better than Amazon).

235 points by rahuldottech 7y ago

Amazon has recently started providing third party sellers for 'fulfilled by Amazon' orders with all of your personal information. There is no reason for them to have this. I've gotten three marketing postcards and have a persistent Facebook ad that started appearing from a brand the day after I ordered one of their products. Don't buy stuff on Amazon if you don't want the third party seller to get all your info.

bsamuels 7y ago
My burner google voice number I use for amazon started getting a ton of spam calls after I ordered from a drop shipper. Wonder if that's how they got my number.
verdverm 7y ago
And you'll never know if you get the real thing with all the counterfeits they mix in
ilamont 7y ago
Amazon has made this information available to Pro Sellers for years. I think the original logic was if there was a problem with the order (missing part, defective product, etc.) the seller could send a replacement without having to ask Amazon for the customer's contact info. As an Amazon customer, I have never received marketing mail separately from the item I ordered. However, almost all orders include a printed postcard or slip of paper saying something to the effect of "If there's a problem with the order, contact us, but if you like the product please leave a review."
- cwkoss 7y ago
  These were mailed separately, which is what surprised me. When I left a negative review, Amazon removed it because it's "not about the product". Appears their new policy is to provide customer name, address, email and phone to third party sellers. Postcard's call to action was to visit a URL. Luckily I opened it in a incognito tab, because the URL redirected to try to use a logged in Facebook messenger session to send the brand a message.
  - astura 7y ago
    They do not provide your email address to third party sellers, the only way to email a buyer is through Amazon. I don't ever recall ever seeing a buyer's phone number, but I have also never looked for it. You've always been able to see a buyer's name and address, including for FBA orders, that not a new policy.
  - AnssiH 7y ago
    > When I left a negative review, Amazon removed it because it's "not about the product". Product reviews are not seller specific so you cannot include seller-specific complaints there. You need to leave a negative seller feedback instead, those are separate from product reviews.
wormseed 7y ago
Amazon changed this because many recent lawsuits have used the fact there's no direct buyer seller relationship to argue Amazon should be liable for defective products instead of the seller.
- catalogia 7y ago
  So they reduce their liability by giving away more personal information. What an ass-backwards system.
ketralnis 7y ago
Their customer service reps also vigorously deny it
craftyguy 7y ago
> and have a persistent Facebook ad You're concerned about Amazon giving your personal information to 3rd parties, and yet you use facebook? Sorry, but, lol.
astura 7y ago
Recently? They've always provided your personal information to third party FBA sellers. At least since 2015 which is when I started FBA. I've always been able to view the name/address my order was shipped to.

jgwil2 7y ago

This is really crummy. If they want to support charities, just do it. I already have to buy from them for them to make a donation. Now I have to grant invasive permissions as well?

0zymandiass 7y ago
They don't want to support charities. They want to get people that want that to spend more money with them. They did the math, and the number of people that will say "no" to that permission is significantly smaller than the amount of money they make from forcing that permission in order to get them to give their scraps to charities.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Even better, they want cheap advertising from charities. Plenty of charities broadcast to their network that you should go set up Amazon Smile to support that charity. And thus you get charities advertising for Amazon.
perl4ever 7y ago
Associating a charitable donation with a transaction is all about exploiting opportunities for price discrimination. The fundamental problem of selling things was always that you had to set one price, unless it was a big-ticket thing that people haggle over. With one price, it's too high for some people, so you lose the potential profit from selling to them at a lower price, and some people buy, but would pay more, so you lose the extra profit from charging them the maximum it is worth to them. Being willing to donate during a transaction is a valuable hint that you would pay more if you had to. I've been avoiding Amazon for a while, but I wanted a product recently that was only on Amazon, and as I clicked through the shipping options, and refused Amazon Prime for the nth time, they jacked up the price by like $5. So I abandoned the order. But I guess their techniques work at scale. My hope is that somehow, their algorithms to discriminate in pricing cause them to self-destruct eventually. In the meantime, I think this is a major part of the dynamic making people feel, and be, poorer - during the past decade there has just been a revolution in eliminating consumer surplus and converting it into producer surplus, and that's where all the corporate growth/wealth is coming from.

clintonb 7y ago

I wasn’t aware they had an app. I agree that require notifications for donations is not ideal, but there is an easy workaround: use the website.

Paul-ish 7y ago
Their mobile website works great. The mobile app is superfluous.
petra 7y ago
Another workaround - block the notifications at the OS, not inside the app.

verdverm 7y ago

I closed all of my Amazon accounts about a year ago, now I buy so much less crap I never needed. The only thing I miss is books... can't always find them with local stores, even on order. I had to go through all those "are you really, really sure?" Only to be required to call them after all that and say, YES! I AM SURE #BoycottBezos Because the only good thing he can think to do with his money is go to space. Maybe he's doing this so he can keep the profits and try to catch Elon

siruncledrew 7y ago
In a galaxy far, far away... the battle rages on between the Imperial Blue Origin and the Rebel SpaceX. Planets are in chaos as Sith Lord Bezos faces his long adversary Obi Elon Kenobi over the fate of the government of the beings and droids.
- verdverm 7y ago
  Lex Bezos v. Tony Musk, they look the parts. Elon, please grow a goatee
lokeshk 7y ago
I don’t have any personal objections with how Bezos decides to use his money, but to your point of books — how’s your local library? I recently realized I was spending some non-negligible amount of money on books every month and switched to the local library. It obviously depends on where you live but I’ve been pleasantly surprised. It’s a fantastic system of local libraries and they’ve all the titles I want to read. There’s a wait for new titles, like Snowden’s book will need me to wait a couple of months, but anything older than a year is almost always available. As the book loan is for 21 days, it also forces me to finish my reading within this time.
- verdverm 7y ago
  I prefer to purchase. I like to go back and re-read sections that are relevant to the current thoughts I'm having. I read 99% non-fiction I do super miss my college library

chiefalchemist 7y ago

I don't understand why so many people support Amazon so much. Everything week there seems to be another story that makes me think "scumbags" or "asshole." As long as they keep getting money their behavior will not chamge.

tracer4201 7y ago
Theres a story about one of the FAANGs just about every day... and these stories are published by outlets who directly compete with these companies in terms of views, clicks, as views, publishing, etc. Not defending the tech giants but saying they’re horrible because you read about them everyday is only part of the story. Those stories are laid out in front of you by the very people who have vested interests against Amazons and the Googles of the world.
- MiroF 7y ago
  But this is a thread on Reddit..
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  No outlet published this. It is a user on reddit.
didibus 7y ago
The articles mostly just repeat the same 3 complaints. 1) They employ a lot of people for doing shitty work. But they're not making those jobs worse, the jobs just suck, and the same jobs elsewhere are just as bad and often pays less. But people don't really want to address the societal root cause, and frown upon talks of increasing minimum wage, setting worker rights regulations, and promoting unionization. So I just see Amazon as a scapegoat for the fact no one really cares. 2) They struggle with quality control, which I've never particularly experienced. And I feel this is true of all big platforms in the internet era. Also, it's normal at their scale, even if only 1% of products have quality issues, that's like millions of orders to write news about. Maybe my local store also has about 1% of issues, but it just doesn't make headlines. The flip side is Amazon has awesome support and return policies. 3) They're killing local stores. I guess I just see that as healthy competition. Amazon just offers a really convenient service. I don't have to leave my house to buy stuff! That's awesome. Also, I see it more as internet shopping is killing local stores. If Amazon goes bust, it'll be some other online store. Driving your car to buy goods just no longer makes sense with the internet in my opinion, unless its goods you have to try out or inspect first. Lastly, I find the real local outlets, like straight from farms markets, hand made artisan shops etc. are competing quite well and not dying. Etsy is doing great for example. So it's more the non competitive middleman that are dying, and that's just healthy competition in my mind. They have to offer a better middleman service, or wait for Amazon to get lazy and stop offering a good service, which they haven't yet.

devicetray0 7y ago

That must just be for purchases through the app? Yesterday, I went to amazon.com and the website reminded me that I wasn't using the Smile (charity) portal and had a button to redirect me to smile.amazon.com. I smiled at that non-dark-pattern. I don't have the app...

wj 7y ago
I get that too from time to time and I feel like it happens if I have a referral cookie set or arrived from a direct referral link and added an item to my cart. The half a percent they give your charity is less than the referral commission. Overall I am very happy to be able to passively support my charity of choice this way.
- patd 7y ago
  And it’s probably tax deductible
  - Thorrez 7y ago
    Aren't all business expenses tax deductible?
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    I’d say the deduction would be claimed by Amazon, and the IRS wouldn’t allow the customer to claim it. And as a sibling commenter mentioned, for businesses it doesn’t matter if it’s a charitable donation or business expense.
vpzom 7y ago
But why is it a separate website in the first place?
- toddmorey 7y ago
  I’ve never, ever understood this

adg29 7y ago

Dark patterns are often justified as trying to gain more of a user’s/customer’s attention, as seen to be the case here. IMHO, this is Amazon shrewdly introducing limits to their charity. Whether it be a functional constraint or a dark pattern, user’s attention is being exchanged for agency of charity on behalf of the consumer. A quick search on Twitter leads me to believe there is a feedback cycle Amazon leveraged with notifications about the Smile program. Consumers buy, notifications of their charity are pushed, Amazon profits. Repeat cycle. Amazon profits.

RonanTheGrey 7y ago
I think we all know the answer to that.
dictum 7y ago
If one considers absence of desire to take a certain approach as a constraint, anything can be a legit constraint.

tracer4201 7y ago

This seems to be a dark pattern that has recently caught on. If you try to add your tickets in the United App to your Apple wallet, the app stops you saying the feature requires you to enable notifications.

applecrazy 7y ago
That seems to be a violation of Apple’s guidelines for apps. edit: seems to violate 3.2.2(vi) or 3.2.2(ix) of the App Store Review guidelines
tyfon 7y ago
Can't you stop notifications from displaying on specific apps in iphone? I've been able to do that for a couple years on my sony phone.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  OP is saying that when they do disable notifications, the app won’t let them add the pass to their Wallet.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
sjg007 7y ago
I find that airlines tickets in Wallet will update automatically if the gate or boarding times change. Maybe it is related to that?

sdtransier 7y ago

There's a great Safari extension on Mac called SmileAllDay that will automatically redirect you to the Smile version of Amazon. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/smileallday/id1180442868?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/smileallday/id1180442868?mt=12

coolspot 7y ago
Also “Smile Always” for Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmhnmjbhgkhpbgelalfpplebgfjmbf?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmh... And Amazon smile! For FF: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/amazon-smile/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/amazon-smile/

karlh 7y ago

Better to donate directly to causes you support or through places like Kiva.org (yeah, I know they have their issues too, but still better than Amazon).