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But, at the same time, some 2% of people are neither male nor female, and our society ought to accommodate that. Not likely to happen while SO's moderators are

But, at the same time, some 2% of people are neither male nor female, and our society ought to accommodate that. Not likely to happen while SO's moderators aren't even honestly engaging with the community, but instead rewriting their posts without comment: https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/334979/revisions https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/334979/revisions

ihatemondays 7y ago
And according to the SO 2019 survey, "only" 91.7% of people on SO identify as male (do keep in mind that not everyone who identifies as male uses he/him too), yet most people default off to he/him when referring to others. This can alienate the 8.3%+, and is probably one of the reasons why that percentage is that low. This change isn't just about trans people, but about anyone who doesn't use he/him or isn't male.
- mckirk 7y ago
  > This can alienate the 8.3%+, and is probably one of the reasons why that percentage is that low. That "probably" there isn't justified, in my opinion. As others in that FAQ thread have pointed out, StackOverflow isn't a place where a lot of third-person interaction is taking place, so I'd consider it a stretch to make that out as a reason that non-males are lacking there. Maybe it's just that women often have better things to do than to ask strangers for help on why their Haskell state monad is acting up.
  - ihatemondays 7y ago
    StackExchange is more than StackOverflow, and StackExchange is more than just the main site. Third party pronouns are widely used in meta and chat.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Meta and chat are the preserve of keen insiders. A new user will typically arrive at SE for asking or answering specific questions. Even most of the users with accounts rarely seem to go near meta and chat. When I was active on SE (I gave up logging in a few years ago), meta was the afterthought to bitch about some policy or detail and the annoying habits of questioners. The chat usually empty or quiet enough that even looking to see if it was active seemed mostly pointless. I'm sure it's grown since, but that's not really where new people are going.
      - ihatemondays 7y ago
        If you don't take part in any conversation that requires use of third party pronouns, then this change doesn't concern you, simple as that. People are making a huge deal out of nothing.
        NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        Now there I'm inclined to agree. :) For 99% of questions and answers pronouns are irrelevant, and rarely ever seen.
beezle 7y ago
"But, at the same time, some 2% of people are neither male nor female, and our society ought to accommodate that." Citation? LGBTQ population estimate (US) 4.5%: https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population-rises.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population... Transgender population estimate (US) 1M/0.3% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ From the above, "The available evidence suggests that the size of the gender-nonconforming or gender-variant population may be twice as large as our best estimate for the transgender population size." That pushes the estimate to 0.6% of which non-binary or andogynous is a subset. I'm not LGBTQ unfriendly at all so don't go there. I am, however, going to question stats that appear questionable, regardless of my personal beliefs.
- falcolas 7y ago
  Hermaphrodytes (more recently called “Intersex”), who have both male and female genetaila. Sometimes, those who were born with both had assignment surgery done as a baby to give them only one set of genetalia. So, it’s a touch more complicated than that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

ihatemondays 7y ago

And according to the SO 2019 survey, "only" 91.7% of people on SO identify as male (do keep in mind that not everyone who identifies as male uses he/him too), yet most people default off to he/him when referring to others. This can alienate the 8.3%+, and is probably one of the reasons why that percentage is that low. This change isn't just about trans people, but about anyone who doesn't use he/him or isn't male.

mckirk 7y ago
> This can alienate the 8.3%+, and is probably one of the reasons why that percentage is that low. That "probably" there isn't justified, in my opinion. As others in that FAQ thread have pointed out, StackOverflow isn't a place where a lot of third-person interaction is taking place, so I'd consider it a stretch to make that out as a reason that non-males are lacking there. Maybe it's just that women often have better things to do than to ask strangers for help on why their Haskell state monad is acting up.
- ihatemondays 7y ago
  StackExchange is more than StackOverflow, and StackExchange is more than just the main site. Third party pronouns are widely used in meta and chat.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Meta and chat are the preserve of keen insiders. A new user will typically arrive at SE for asking or answering specific questions. Even most of the users with accounts rarely seem to go near meta and chat. When I was active on SE (I gave up logging in a few years ago), meta was the afterthought to bitch about some policy or detail and the annoying habits of questioners. The chat usually empty or quiet enough that even looking to see if it was active seemed mostly pointless. I'm sure it's grown since, but that's not really where new people are going.
    - ihatemondays 7y ago
      If you don't take part in any conversation that requires use of third party pronouns, then this change doesn't concern you, simple as that. People are making a huge deal out of nothing.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        Now there I'm inclined to agree. :) For 99% of questions and answers pronouns are irrelevant, and rarely ever seen.

beezle 7y ago

"But, at the same time, some 2% of people are neither male nor female, and our society ought to accommodate that." Citation? LGBTQ population estimate (US) 4.5%: https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population-rises.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population... Transgender population estimate (US) 1M/0.3% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ From the above, "The available evidence suggests that the size of the gender-nonconforming or gender-variant population may be twice as large as our best estimate for the transgender population size." That pushes the estimate to 0.6% of which non-binary or andogynous is a subset. I'm not LGBTQ unfriendly at all so don't go there. I am, however, going to question stats that appear questionable, regardless of my personal beliefs.

falcolas 7y ago
Hermaphrodytes (more recently called “Intersex”), who have both male and female genetaila. Sometimes, those who were born with both had assignment surgery done as a baby to give them only one set of genetalia. So, it’s a touch more complicated than that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex