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It is stunning to me that we can more easily imagine a city center with a collaborative hive mind of self driving cars than we can one with no cars at all. Why

It is stunning to me that we can more easily imagine a city center with a collaborative hive mind of self driving cars than we can one with no cars at all. Why do we want that future so badly?

heyflyguy 7y ago
What is your vision?
- L_Rahman 7y ago
  I believe /u/gherkinnn has painted a picture that represents both of our desired futures.
- FreelanceX 7y ago
  Just what he said... A city with no cars at all.
  - heyflyguy 7y ago
    I hope in 100 years you're right. I hope in 20 years I'm right.
- gherkinnn 7y ago
  A hivemind of spacious boxes on wheels, linked to make a sort of snake. Each fitted with seats and things to hold on to. They run along fixed routes in regular intervals. They could transport thousands of people per hour safely around a town of any size. And as ‘snake’ is not an ideal word, I’d suggest the word ‘tram’. Has a nice ring to it. A variation could be ones that don’t run on tracks but normal wheels. Rest still applies. Shall we call those ‘busses’? Bike lanes, access for business and residents keep the rest alive. Bonus points of we plant lots of trees and build little fountains.
wongarsu 7y ago
As a German I am not at all looking forward to GPs vision. But I'm used to huge pedestrian zones, walking to the supermarket, and more recently effortlessly zooming through inner cities on electrical kick-scooters (and the pick-up and drop-off anywhere model seems to work fairly well around here). The only transformation I'm hoping for are more electrical cars to reduce noise and pollution, other than that I'm fairly content with our city center design. But of course that's a huge culture disconnect to the US. Germany may be a country of car manufacturers, and we love driving cars, but the US has designed their cities around cars in a way probably no other country has.
rayiner 7y ago
Because cars are great? You get where you want to go quickly, can carry a bunch of stuff with you, and are protected from the elements. Walking, by contrast, sucks. Here in DC, it’s pleasant outside for like 4 months out of the year. For five months out of the year, the daily low is below freezing or the daily high is above 80. That’s true in Amsterdam zero months out of the year.
- L_Rahman 7y ago
  The alternative to cars isn't walking in a car based city, it's a combination of any of the following modes: subways, light rail, bus rapid transit, bikeshare bikes, personally owned bikes, electric assist personal vehicles (bikes, scooters, wheelchairs), pedestrianized walkways shaded by trees, humane public space, higher density life leading to lower transit time People have non-car based cities where it's really hot. I was just in Taipei where it's 90F+ and 80%+ most of the year which has most of the things I described. And also where it's really cold. I haven't been to Copenhagen, but it's snowy for a solid three to four months of the year and people use their public transit infrastructure (cycling included) year round.
- mhandley 7y ago
  Those benefits would also be true in something like a Messerschmitt car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_KR200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_KR200 If we can build electric versions of this that don't need huge crumple zones because they don't crash and don't have to share the road with huge vehicles that do crash, then that might be an appropriate vehicle for cities with inclement climates. But designing cities around todays cars definitely seems to have been a mistake.
- MereInterest 7y ago
  Walking sucks in a city designed for cars. Needing to walk past row after row of parking spaces, or taking a half-mile detour to get to the nearest crosswalk. Intersections are designed to avoid slowing cars down, which increases the danger of every crossing. Walking is fantastic in cities that are designed for walking. Walking by a different shop every dozen steps, rather than every quarter mile. Crossing the street at any location, or even having the street repurposed for walking in. Yes, snow is annoying. You bundle up with a coat and boots, and then it doesn't matter anymore. The fundamental difference is in how a city is designed.

It is stunning to me that we can more easily imagine a city center with a collaborative hive mind of self driving cars than we can one with no cars at all. Why do we want that future so badly?

heyflyguy 7y ago

What is your vision?

L_Rahman 7y ago
I believe /u/gherkinnn has painted a picture that represents both of our desired futures.
FreelanceX 7y ago
Just what he said... A city with no cars at all.
- heyflyguy 7y ago
  I hope in 100 years you're right. I hope in 20 years I'm right.
gherkinnn 7y ago
A hivemind of spacious boxes on wheels, linked to make a sort of snake. Each fitted with seats and things to hold on to. They run along fixed routes in regular intervals. They could transport thousands of people per hour safely around a town of any size. And as ‘snake’ is not an ideal word, I’d suggest the word ‘tram’. Has a nice ring to it. A variation could be ones that don’t run on tracks but normal wheels. Rest still applies. Shall we call those ‘busses’? Bike lanes, access for business and residents keep the rest alive. Bonus points of we plant lots of trees and build little fountains.

wongarsu 7y ago

As a German I am not at all looking forward to GPs vision. But I'm used to huge pedestrian zones, walking to the supermarket, and more recently effortlessly zooming through inner cities on electrical kick-scooters (and the pick-up and drop-off anywhere model seems to work fairly well around here). The only transformation I'm hoping for are more electrical cars to reduce noise and pollution, other than that I'm fairly content with our city center design. But of course that's a huge culture disconnect to the US. Germany may be a country of car manufacturers, and we love driving cars, but the US has designed their cities around cars in a way probably no other country has.

rayiner 7y ago

Because cars are great? You get where you want to go quickly, can carry a bunch of stuff with you, and are protected from the elements. Walking, by contrast, sucks. Here in DC, it’s pleasant outside for like 4 months out of the year. For five months out of the year, the daily low is below freezing or the daily high is above 80. That’s true in Amsterdam zero months out of the year.

L_Rahman 7y ago
The alternative to cars isn't walking in a car based city, it's a combination of any of the following modes: subways, light rail, bus rapid transit, bikeshare bikes, personally owned bikes, electric assist personal vehicles (bikes, scooters, wheelchairs), pedestrianized walkways shaded by trees, humane public space, higher density life leading to lower transit time People have non-car based cities where it's really hot. I was just in Taipei where it's 90F+ and 80%+ most of the year which has most of the things I described. And also where it's really cold. I haven't been to Copenhagen, but it's snowy for a solid three to four months of the year and people use their public transit infrastructure (cycling included) year round.
mhandley 7y ago
Those benefits would also be true in something like a Messerschmitt car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_KR200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_KR200 If we can build electric versions of this that don't need huge crumple zones because they don't crash and don't have to share the road with huge vehicles that do crash, then that might be an appropriate vehicle for cities with inclement climates. But designing cities around todays cars definitely seems to have been a mistake.
MereInterest 7y ago
Walking sucks in a city designed for cars. Needing to walk past row after row of parking spaces, or taking a half-mile detour to get to the nearest crosswalk. Intersections are designed to avoid slowing cars down, which increases the danger of every crossing. Walking is fantastic in cities that are designed for walking. Walking by a different shop every dozen steps, rather than every quarter mile. Crossing the street at any location, or even having the street repurposed for walking in. Yes, snow is annoying. You bundle up with a coat and boots, and then it doesn't matter anymore. The fundamental difference is in how a city is designed.