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There are cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin who dont clearly have any issuer. On the other hand crypto tokens like telegrams ton has a clear issue. The latter is cl

There are cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin who dont clearly have any issuer. On the other hand crypto tokens like telegrams ton has a clear issue. The latter is clearly a security, for the first you first have to find the issuer which cant be found. Also I would classify ethereum as a security, because they created a token offering initially. After it was launched it was mined, but I understand majority was sold in the initial coin offering.

akrymski 7y ago
Satoshi is the issuer. Just because you can’t find the person who started a pyramid scheme doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist.
- pm7 7y ago
  Just because he created software doesn't mean he issues BTC. Bitcoin by design doesn't grant him any control like that. Pyramid scheme? Do you even know what does it mean? If Bitcoin is pyramid scheme, so are many others things like stocks, currencies etc.
  - pergadad 7y ago
    Stock - you open part of a company Currency - a state-backed value in which government salaries and bills are paid and in which you pay your taxes BTC - a somewhat decentralised ledger where most coins are held by a very low number of people and where some of the early folks made massive amounts of money. Not backed out exchangeable by/for anything, with value purely coming from someone else being there to buy it. Great for dissidents, tax evaders and anything illegal - but not really any other case for its existence except among those with a radical distrust in government.
    - pm7 7y ago
      Stock - in theory yes, but look at how massively overpriced they are now. For example, do you think 123B capitalization of Netflix is appropriate to value of company itself? If there was no expectation of stock value going up indefinitely, would it really sell for current stock price? Currency - you said "state-backed" - backed by what? Forcing it's use by demanding taxes and paying salaries/bills is not "backed". BTC: "most coins are held by a very low number of people" - can you prove it? Consider that keys to many old account are probably lost. "Not backed out exchangeable by/for anything" - neither are most/all currencies. Even commodities like gold sell by much higher price that is "backed" by usage of these in industry. "value purely coming from someone else being there to buy it" - there is some value in being able to transmit/store value "Great for dissidents, tax evaders and anything illegal" - I would actually say cryptocurrencies are awful for these applications: there are little places where you can pay with them and many will require verifications (and will report significant transfers). Bitcoin blockchain is public allowing tracking of transaction. On the other hand, cash? Accepted anywhere, non-trackable and people are already experienced in money laundering. "but not really any other case for its existence except among those with a radical distrust in government" - distrust in government seems to be just healthy at the moment (for example, see civil forfeiture and Snowden).

akrymski 7y ago

Satoshi is the issuer. Just because you can’t find the person who started a pyramid scheme doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist.

pm7 7y ago
Just because he created software doesn't mean he issues BTC. Bitcoin by design doesn't grant him any control like that. Pyramid scheme? Do you even know what does it mean? If Bitcoin is pyramid scheme, so are many others things like stocks, currencies etc.
- pergadad 7y ago
  Stock - you open part of a company Currency - a state-backed value in which government salaries and bills are paid and in which you pay your taxes BTC - a somewhat decentralised ledger where most coins are held by a very low number of people and where some of the early folks made massive amounts of money. Not backed out exchangeable by/for anything, with value purely coming from someone else being there to buy it. Great for dissidents, tax evaders and anything illegal - but not really any other case for its existence except among those with a radical distrust in government.
  - pm7 7y ago
    Stock - in theory yes, but look at how massively overpriced they are now. For example, do you think 123B capitalization of Netflix is appropriate to value of company itself? If there was no expectation of stock value going up indefinitely, would it really sell for current stock price? Currency - you said "state-backed" - backed by what? Forcing it's use by demanding taxes and paying salaries/bills is not "backed". BTC: "most coins are held by a very low number of people" - can you prove it? Consider that keys to many old account are probably lost. "Not backed out exchangeable by/for anything" - neither are most/all currencies. Even commodities like gold sell by much higher price that is "backed" by usage of these in industry. "value purely coming from someone else being there to buy it" - there is some value in being able to transmit/store value "Great for dissidents, tax evaders and anything illegal" - I would actually say cryptocurrencies are awful for these applications: there are little places where you can pay with them and many will require verifications (and will report significant transfers). Bitcoin blockchain is public allowing tracking of transaction. On the other hand, cash? Accepted anywhere, non-trackable and people are already experienced in money laundering. "but not really any other case for its existence except among those with a radical distrust in government" - distrust in government seems to be just healthy at the moment (for example, see civil forfeiture and Snowden).