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> Every world power worth the title forces trading partners to treat it like a delicate flower or otherwise lose the opportunity to trade and even though the U

> Every world power worth the title forces trading partners to treat it like a delicate flower or otherwise lose the opportunity to trade and even though the US is the current largest economy in the world China is on track to surpass it so US companies have almost no choice but to appease the heavy-handed Chinese government. Yes, but what China does is go one step further by making extremely clear that Western corporations who want to do business with China don't disparage the Chinese government publicly, don't talk about Tibet, don't call Taiwan a free country... And every company has the choice, it's just that they chose to abide by Chinese rules, that's all. I mean the bill always comes due, always. For 30+ years the west has depended on China to produce consumer grade products such has high tech, toys, and what not, looking the other way when it comes to human rights, and now people are complaining that a bloody dictatorship behaves like one? When trade agreements were signed, why did no other world power imposed ethical conditions on China? Because building our stuff in a bloody dictatorship to drive down cost is what all the west wanted, that's all. It's a bit easy to wake up 30+ years later and act all surprised that there are political consequences to this. Look at Hollywood, the biggest propaganda tool in the world, bending over backward not to offend China because of their cinema market. All these "actors/activists" so vocal about everything, you never hear them talking about China curiously, That's the bill I was talking about earlier. Now they work for China.

gigatexal 7y ago
I agree. I want nothing more than to revel in the fact that I can both call Trump a pumpkin idiot and President Xi a dictator that looks like Winnie the Pooh. (Don’t even get me started on Taiwan or Hong Kong — none of my stances would be appreciated by the Party) But I’m not trying to sell Trump fans or supporters of President Xi goods and or services. I don’t envy Tim Cook and his role as leader of Apple, beholden to Wall Street pundits always seeking growth, and yet espousing safety and privacy for all on its platform and yet caving to the Chinese government. That said who knows if the claims made in Tim’s email about harm coming to Chinese police from the app or attacks on citizens not sympathetic to the HK protests — there’s so much misinformation out there and it’s in China’s best interest to spin things.
dbattaglia 7y ago
> It's a bit easy to wake up 30+ years later and act all surprised that there are political consequences to this. I mostly do agree with you but one point worth considering is that many people didn't "wake up" 30 years later, they were born in the last 30 years and don't want to accept the world that their parents handed them.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
The blindspot most people have here towards atrocities committed by Western governments is really striking. The United States regularly invades other countries (causing hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq, destroying Libya), armed Sunni extremists in Syria, backs the Saudi dictatorship and the Israeli occupation, is economically strangling Iran and Venezuela, ran a global abduction and torture operation, still runs a global assassination program, and spies on the communications of billions of people around the world. Yet suddenly, everyone is up in arms about China as the threat to the world that must be stopped. This sudden paranoia just happens to coincide with American foreign policy interests - preventing the rise of a challenge to American hegemony. A couple months ago it was Russia. Now it's China. In a year from now, it will be the next country it's convenient to US foreign policy to hate.
- gigatexal 7y ago
  I'm not at all thinking that the US is exempt from atrocities of foreign policy from regime change to unfounded wars. The one distinction that exists is that elected officials are the ones that carry these things out in the US such that in some way all Americans carry the burden of those actions, in China, not so much. Xi has taken steps to be leader for his lifetime; China is carrying out mass camps where Uighurs are being systematically targeted for their religion among other things. Being an American, I know I can be blind to my government's policies and how they affect other nations, I mean, we use the fact that the US dollar is the world reserve currency such that it can use the power of the US Treasury to wield the banking system to shut down nation banks. Great power, much responsibility and all that.

gigatexal 7y ago

I agree. I want nothing more than to revel in the fact that I can both call Trump a pumpkin idiot and President Xi a dictator that looks like Winnie the Pooh. (Don’t even get me started on Taiwan or Hong Kong — none of my stances would be appreciated by the Party) But I’m not trying to sell Trump fans or supporters of President Xi goods and or services. I don’t envy Tim Cook and his role as leader of Apple, beholden to Wall Street pundits always seeking growth, and yet espousing safety and privacy for all on its platform and yet caving to the Chinese government. That said who knows if the claims made in Tim’s email about harm coming to Chinese police from the app or attacks on citizens not sympathetic to the HK protests — there’s so much misinformation out there and it’s in China’s best interest to spin things.

dbattaglia 7y ago

> It's a bit easy to wake up 30+ years later and act all surprised that there are political consequences to this. I mostly do agree with you but one point worth considering is that many people didn't "wake up" 30 years later, they were born in the last 30 years and don't want to accept the world that their parents handed them.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

The blindspot most people have here towards atrocities committed by Western governments is really striking. The United States regularly invades other countries (causing hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq, destroying Libya), armed Sunni extremists in Syria, backs the Saudi dictatorship and the Israeli occupation, is economically strangling Iran and Venezuela, ran a global abduction and torture operation, still runs a global assassination program, and spies on the communications of billions of people around the world. Yet suddenly, everyone is up in arms about China as the threat to the world that must be stopped. This sudden paranoia just happens to coincide with American foreign policy interests - preventing the rise of a challenge to American hegemony. A couple months ago it was Russia. Now it's China. In a year from now, it will be the next country it's convenient to US foreign policy to hate.

gigatexal 7y ago
I'm not at all thinking that the US is exempt from atrocities of foreign policy from regime change to unfounded wars. The one distinction that exists is that elected officials are the ones that carry these things out in the US such that in some way all Americans carry the burden of those actions, in China, not so much. Xi has taken steps to be leader for his lifetime; China is carrying out mass camps where Uighurs are being systematically targeted for their religion among other things. Being an American, I know I can be blind to my government's policies and how they affect other nations, I mean, we use the fact that the US dollar is the world reserve currency such that it can use the power of the US Treasury to wield the banking system to shut down nation banks. Great power, much responsibility and all that.