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Yeah except they are not digital currencies(i.e you cant store them on a cold wallet, you can't send or accept them without several 3rd parties involved(i.e pay

Yeah except they are not digital currencies(i.e you cant store them on a cold wallet, you can't send or accept them without several 3rd parties involved(i.e paypal, visa, banks)

easytiger 7y ago
So you are saying there are even more benefits?
- thefounder 7y ago
  I'm saying there are less benefits because you don't own your own digital money(except if it's hard cash). The current digital payment system (paypal, visa etc) is pretty much like a glorified Spotify subscription. You don't own anything...just get a license to use it under various conditions. You can't even accept payments without a "processor" and that processor has its own t&c.
antihero 7y ago
At least governments are sort of remotely accountable. If we've learned anything from the entire fucking history of the internet it's that nerds with power are not particularly accountable.
- wallace_f 7y ago
  Do you really think if the internet was architected by politicians or corporate suits rather than 'some nerds with power'that it would have turned out better?
  - antihero 7y ago
    No, but let's not conflate the internet and currency/
    - jrochkind1 7y ago
      Wait, aren't you the first one to do that in your first comment in this thread?
      - ben_w 7y ago
        I don’t think antihero did, I think Facebook did that with this project. Also PayPal before that. Personally, I don’t trust any of these systems or organisations, neither tech, nor fintech, nor traditional banks. They’re all flawed for different reasons. Technology is an attack surface the traditional banks don’t comprehend (from the horror stories I’ve heard from tech people who worked for them), and successful attacks on banking have rewards that tech… I don’t think fully appreciates.
        speedplane 7y ago
        > Technology is an attack surface the traditional banks don’t comprehend, and successful attacks on banking have rewards that tech… I don’t think fully appreciates. True, but Tech also doesn't really appreciate banks. Banks make much of their money from transaction fees, from literally moving money from one point to another, to large IPO underwriting. Tech can certainly lower transaction fees, but a bank's transaction fees is more than just getting a job done, it's trusting that the job can get done. Banks are able to get away with large transaction fees because they have developed trust and credibility that many are willing to pay for. Tech simply sees this as an engineering challenge and ignores the non-tech legal and social guarantees that banks provide.
- FerretFred 7y ago
  > At least governments are sort of remotely accountable That's very "sort of", and very remote! I wouldn't trust my (the UK) Government as far as I could throw them!
ummwhat 7y ago
>you cant store them on a cold wallet Literally the only wallet is a cold wallet. Cold hard cash.
- thefounder 7y ago
  Yeah but you can't send hard cash over the internet so let's stick to the "digital" requirement.
vinniejames 7y ago
More importantly you can't travel with them without paying absurd exchange fees and aweful forex rates
- tim333 7y ago
  Unless you use Transferwise, Revolut, Monzo or similar.
  - vinniejames 7y ago
    Not true, you still get screwed on cash withdrawals regardless of the service you use. Most ATMs apply DCC even when you hold the local currency
    - ben_w 7y ago
      Now I think about it, I’ve never actually tried using my Revolut card in an ATM. What I have done is used it for my day-to-day shopping in Germany for just over a year, for holidays in Switzerland, Austria, Finland, and Spain, and also as a really good source of exchange rates when transferring money from my Pounds-only bank to my Euros-only bank. In all occasions, it deducts from the correct balance without conversion.
tim333 7y ago
There are digital versions of USD and EUR eg. Tether and others.
dingo_bat 7y ago
I can store my currency quite well in a cold (or hot) wallet. I can store it in my drawer if I want to.

Yeah except they are not digital currencies(i.e you cant store them on a cold wallet, you can't send or accept them without several 3rd parties involved(i.e paypal, visa, banks)

easytiger 7y ago

So you are saying there are even more benefits?

thefounder 7y ago
I'm saying there are less benefits because you don't own your own digital money(except if it's hard cash). The current digital payment system (paypal, visa etc) is pretty much like a glorified Spotify subscription. You don't own anything...just get a license to use it under various conditions. You can't even accept payments without a "processor" and that processor has its own t&c.

antihero 7y ago

At least governments are sort of remotely accountable. If we've learned anything from the entire fucking history of the internet it's that nerds with power are not particularly accountable.

wallace_f 7y ago
Do you really think if the internet was architected by politicians or corporate suits rather than 'some nerds with power'that it would have turned out better?
- antihero 7y ago
  No, but let's not conflate the internet and currency/
  - jrochkind1 7y ago
    Wait, aren't you the first one to do that in your first comment in this thread?
    - ben_w 7y ago
      I don’t think antihero did, I think Facebook did that with this project. Also PayPal before that. Personally, I don’t trust any of these systems or organisations, neither tech, nor fintech, nor traditional banks. They’re all flawed for different reasons. Technology is an attack surface the traditional banks don’t comprehend (from the horror stories I’ve heard from tech people who worked for them), and successful attacks on banking have rewards that tech… I don’t think fully appreciates.
      - speedplane 7y ago
        > Technology is an attack surface the traditional banks don’t comprehend, and successful attacks on banking have rewards that tech… I don’t think fully appreciates. True, but Tech also doesn't really appreciate banks. Banks make much of their money from transaction fees, from literally moving money from one point to another, to large IPO underwriting. Tech can certainly lower transaction fees, but a bank's transaction fees is more than just getting a job done, it's trusting that the job can get done. Banks are able to get away with large transaction fees because they have developed trust and credibility that many are willing to pay for. Tech simply sees this as an engineering challenge and ignores the non-tech legal and social guarantees that banks provide.
FerretFred 7y ago
> At least governments are sort of remotely accountable That's very "sort of", and very remote! I wouldn't trust my (the UK) Government as far as I could throw them!

ummwhat 7y ago

>you cant store them on a cold wallet Literally the only wallet is a cold wallet. Cold hard cash.

thefounder 7y ago
Yeah but you can't send hard cash over the internet so let's stick to the "digital" requirement.

vinniejames 7y ago

More importantly you can't travel with them without paying absurd exchange fees and aweful forex rates

tim333 7y ago
Unless you use Transferwise, Revolut, Monzo or similar.
- vinniejames 7y ago
  Not true, you still get screwed on cash withdrawals regardless of the service you use. Most ATMs apply DCC even when you hold the local currency
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Now I think about it, I’ve never actually tried using my Revolut card in an ATM. What I have done is used it for my day-to-day shopping in Germany for just over a year, for holidays in Switzerland, Austria, Finland, and Spain, and also as a really good source of exchange rates when transferring money from my Pounds-only bank to my Euros-only bank. In all occasions, it deducts from the correct balance without conversion.

tim333 7y ago

There are digital versions of USD and EUR eg. Tether and others.

dingo_bat 7y ago

I can store my currency quite well in a cold (or hot) wallet. I can store it in my drawer if I want to.