6 ms·

Why is this such a big deal? If companies can buy product placements in TV shows, I don't see why China can't buy censorship. Apple, the NBA, Google, and Bliz

Why is this such a big deal? If companies can buy product placements in TV shows, I don't see why China can't buy censorship. Apple, the NBA, Google, and Blizzard are all trying to make money. Somehow shilling for Pepsi is widely accepted, but shilling for China is too far?

alt_f4 7y ago
It's the whole selling of a sugary drink vs selling the oppression of a billion people.
- anon9001 7y ago
  Both seem bad. Isn't the thing to be offended about that you're consuming media that you think is an artistic work, but it's got some propaganda mixed in with it? If you're doing business with Pepsi and your workers are publicly trashing Pepsi, it makes sense that you'd put a stop to it. That's what Apple (and the rest) are doing with China.
  - austhrow743 7y ago
    >Isn't the thing to be offended about that you're consuming media that you think is an artistic work, but it's got some propaganda mixed in with it? No the thing to be offended about is genocide. Art can go fuck itself compared to that. No offence to art or dislike for it.
    - anon9001 7y ago
      What genocide? This whole thing boiled over due to a proposed law to allow extradition of HK residents to China, which is bad, but it's not genocide.
      - austhrow743 7y ago
        The Uyghurs. HK is getting most of the China attention lately but right before that it was all directly about the Uyghurs. HK gets more attention because they have more ability to broadcast their struggle. Videos of people fighting police are more entertaining than satellite photos of bland looking buildings. That China is forcing abortions and harvesting organs from people in concentration camps is what gives the HK and global business capitulation stories their edge though. A country slightly reducing the independence of one of its cities isn't all that big of a deal, unless that country is evil incarnate. Businesses working within the framework set by, and cooperating with, the governments they are working under isn't a big deal, unless that government is evil incarnate. It turns those things in to the equivalent of Poland being swallowed up by WW2 Germany and allied countries fueling the German war machine. Yes I am making a Nazi reference, of which I consider the CCP to be within the ballpark of.
        anon9001 7y ago
        Ok, I did a little reading on that one, and that's pretty close to genocide. The idea that everything that touches China is toxic seems reasonable, but it still doesn't explain why are we suddenly drawing the line at censorship in entertainment. Everything is made in China, and Apple is no stranger to the Chinese market. I don't know how it worked with the nazis, but I'd guess at some point it became unacceptable for US companies to do business with them. Maybe that's where this is headed.
        jowsie 7y ago
        iPhones aren't being made worse globally to cater to Chinese government demands. Entertainment, arguably, is.
        poudfeahw 7y ago
        What's shocking is that HK with 0 deaths is getting more news than Iraq, where 100 protesters were just killed a few days agi. Not to mention Kashmir, which isn't even in the news anymore.
  - wp381640 7y ago
    I know China defenders take whataboutism and moral relativism to extremes but not even the Soviet Union stooped so low to justify any of their actions with "But, Pepsi"
    - anon9001 7y ago
      I'm not defending China. I'm just surprised at how shocked everyone seems to be that media companies are peddling influence for China, because they'll do it for literally anyone with money.
austhrow743 7y ago
>Somehow shilling for Pepsi is widely accepted, but shilling for China is too far? Uhh yes? That's a completely valid line of acceptance for people to have. One of those things harvests organs out of people in concentration camps. How is this confusing?
- anon9001 7y ago
  Yeah and the other one uses child labor to harvest palm oil (or did until very recently). The bigger the organization, the more likely you're going to find some bad stuff. Apple's got worker suicides. China has probably harvested organs from prisoners. None of it's great, but I don't really know how to judge how bad China is proportionally. How many organs would they have to harvest to be comparable to how many children were forced to harvest oil for PepsiCo?
- scilro 7y ago
  The abuses in Xinjiang are real, but we do the Muslims there a disservice if we share actual fake news. The organ harvesting story was made up. https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harvesting-cult-falun-gong/ https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harve...
- sadris 7y ago
  They're not harvesting organs. Criminals who are executed have their organs not go to waste in a coffin. It's not like they're taking everyone's second kidney.
  - chillacy 7y ago
    I think it's problematic because it creates perverse incentives to make more criminals. And there are religious / moral concerns about taking parts of your body after you die without consent. But I also understand that the biggest objections are the religious / moral ones, and I don't know maybe that doesn't bother people as much in China?
    - FireBeyond 7y ago
Hamuko 7y ago
If PepsiCo paid CNN to not air negative news about them, I'd take offence.

alt_f4 7y ago

It's the whole selling of a sugary drink vs selling the oppression of a billion people.

anon9001 7y ago
Both seem bad. Isn't the thing to be offended about that you're consuming media that you think is an artistic work, but it's got some propaganda mixed in with it? If you're doing business with Pepsi and your workers are publicly trashing Pepsi, it makes sense that you'd put a stop to it. That's what Apple (and the rest) are doing with China.
- austhrow743 7y ago
  >Isn't the thing to be offended about that you're consuming media that you think is an artistic work, but it's got some propaganda mixed in with it? No the thing to be offended about is genocide. Art can go fuck itself compared to that. No offence to art or dislike for it.
  - anon9001 7y ago
    What genocide? This whole thing boiled over due to a proposed law to allow extradition of HK residents to China, which is bad, but it's not genocide.
    - austhrow743 7y ago
      The Uyghurs. HK is getting most of the China attention lately but right before that it was all directly about the Uyghurs. HK gets more attention because they have more ability to broadcast their struggle. Videos of people fighting police are more entertaining than satellite photos of bland looking buildings. That China is forcing abortions and harvesting organs from people in concentration camps is what gives the HK and global business capitulation stories their edge though. A country slightly reducing the independence of one of its cities isn't all that big of a deal, unless that country is evil incarnate. Businesses working within the framework set by, and cooperating with, the governments they are working under isn't a big deal, unless that government is evil incarnate. It turns those things in to the equivalent of Poland being swallowed up by WW2 Germany and allied countries fueling the German war machine. Yes I am making a Nazi reference, of which I consider the CCP to be within the ballpark of.
      - anon9001 7y ago
        Ok, I did a little reading on that one, and that's pretty close to genocide. The idea that everything that touches China is toxic seems reasonable, but it still doesn't explain why are we suddenly drawing the line at censorship in entertainment. Everything is made in China, and Apple is no stranger to the Chinese market. I don't know how it worked with the nazis, but I'd guess at some point it became unacceptable for US companies to do business with them. Maybe that's where this is headed.
        jowsie 7y ago
        iPhones aren't being made worse globally to cater to Chinese government demands. Entertainment, arguably, is.
      - poudfeahw 7y ago
        What's shocking is that HK with 0 deaths is getting more news than Iraq, where 100 protesters were just killed a few days agi. Not to mention Kashmir, which isn't even in the news anymore.
- wp381640 7y ago
  I know China defenders take whataboutism and moral relativism to extremes but not even the Soviet Union stooped so low to justify any of their actions with "But, Pepsi"
  - anon9001 7y ago
    I'm not defending China. I'm just surprised at how shocked everyone seems to be that media companies are peddling influence for China, because they'll do it for literally anyone with money.

austhrow743 7y ago

>Somehow shilling for Pepsi is widely accepted, but shilling for China is too far? Uhh yes? That's a completely valid line of acceptance for people to have. One of those things harvests organs out of people in concentration camps. How is this confusing?

anon9001 7y ago
Yeah and the other one uses child labor to harvest palm oil (or did until very recently). The bigger the organization, the more likely you're going to find some bad stuff. Apple's got worker suicides. China has probably harvested organs from prisoners. None of it's great, but I don't really know how to judge how bad China is proportionally. How many organs would they have to harvest to be comparable to how many children were forced to harvest oil for PepsiCo?
scilro 7y ago
The abuses in Xinjiang are real, but we do the Muslims there a disservice if we share actual fake news. The organ harvesting story was made up. https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harvesting-cult-falun-gong/ https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harve...
sadris 7y ago
They're not harvesting organs. Criminals who are executed have their organs not go to waste in a coffin. It's not like they're taking everyone's second kidney.
- chillacy 7y ago
  I think it's problematic because it creates perverse incentives to make more criminals. And there are religious / moral concerns about taking parts of your body after you die without consent. But I also understand that the biggest objections are the religious / moral ones, and I don't know maybe that doesn't bother people as much in China?
  - FireBeyond 7y ago

Hamuko 7y ago

If PepsiCo paid CNN to not air negative news about them, I'd take offence.