13 ms·

Since Libra isn't distributed, in the sense that anyone can start mining it, one of the key premises for its trust was that governance and operation will be han

Since Libra isn't distributed, in the sense that anyone can start mining it, one of the key premises for its trust was that governance and operation will be handled by a group of powerful and trustworthy companies. The more companies leave the initiative the more centralized it becomes and the less its trust model is valid. If only Facebook remains it isn't any different than a simple virtual currency (like the discontinued Facebook Credits). And to preempt the argument that visa and mastercard aren't trustworthy - there is an inherent trust that most people give to big companies because their processes and checks and balances developed over years to be robust - usually from having to handle lawsuits and regulations which small companies rarely do.

WC3w6pXxgGd 7y ago
" If only Facebook remains it isn't any different than a simple virtual currency" Regardless, it never was different than a simple virtual currency, unless it's truly decentralized, which was never in the cards.
keymone 7y ago
> powerful and trustworthy companies That’s an oxymoron in general, but also specifically, did you just say Facebook is trustworthy? O_o Low quality comment, I know, I just couldn’t resist.
thefounder 7y ago
What people want is a stable currency that they can use where ever they want. That means at atm/mfm machines, pos, internet and p2p. They couldn't care less if visa/mastercard or JPMorgan is behind it. The issue is that without visa/mastercard is hard to convince banks and merchants to accept this new currency.
- te_chris 7y ago
  You mean like the eur, usd, aud, nzd, gbp, jpy? That sort of stable and reliable currency with a strong banking infrastructure?
  - lucasverra 7y ago
    yeah, those are the ones you can't sent 2 or 3 units of abroad in a minute by chat, where the receiver is not taxed 2-5%
    - bad_user 7y ago
      There are newer services like Revolut proving that it can be done. All you need is somebody's phone number and the transfer is instant and with no taxes. You can also exchange currency at the interbank exchange rate during the week. And transferring that money to your local bank account is also free of taxes. Not sure if Revolut will last, but I've been very happy with it.
      - manicdee 7y ago
        And then there’s PayID in Australia: “pay anyone using their phone number”. Only the people setting up the processing system decided that all the security required for Visa/MasterCard processing was an obstacle and they didn’t think to implement rate limiting on their facility that provides account details in response to a phone number query. https://www.itnews.com.au/news/aussie-banks-warn-customers-after-fresh-payid-data-breach-529938 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/aussie-banks-warn-customers-a... In this story they refer to a “spike” in queries to the database. What actually happened is that someone tried querying every mobile phone number in Australia.
    - asjw 7y ago
      Why should I send 2 or 3 euros to someone over a chat? In Europe I can authorize a seller to directly take money from my account, if it's money for someone I trust (family, close friends) I can give them my prepaid credit card number and charge it with just the amount they need Do you really think that Libra would make this simpler?
    - jbverschoor 7y ago
      My revolut transaction for eur->cad didn't arrive. Now I have to pull all strings at bth banks to figure out what happened.
buboard 7y ago
I dont buy the idea that Paypal added critical legitimacy to the project. SV companies are a pretty homogeneous interest group, and FB is already one of the largest players. For me libra is trustworthy because it's backed by real money from many governments. It's highly unlikely that facebook would commit real fraud with it, since they both have the cash to pull it through and committing fraud would be devastating to their brand (HN may not like FB , but it is obviously one of the better trusted tech companies). This also opens the way for other more obscure partners to enter the association. That will probably determine its future course
- harryf 7y ago
  I've got to wonder if Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Stripe and others got involved with this on the principle "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"? Facebook is too big to just crush, so you need a smarter approach. By initially supporting Libra, they got to find out FB's plans, get access to a bunch of market research and see what kind of hurdles they would face if they wanted to launch their own version of the same thing. Then by backing out at the 11th hour, they're able to undermine Libra's credibility before it gets started and make it look like a doomed project.

WC3w6pXxgGd 7y ago

" If only Facebook remains it isn't any different than a simple virtual currency" Regardless, it never was different than a simple virtual currency, unless it's truly decentralized, which was never in the cards.

keymone 7y ago

> powerful and trustworthy companies That’s an oxymoron in general, but also specifically, did you just say Facebook is trustworthy? O_o Low quality comment, I know, I just couldn’t resist.

thefounder 7y ago

What people want is a stable currency that they can use where ever they want. That means at atm/mfm machines, pos, internet and p2p. They couldn't care less if visa/mastercard or JPMorgan is behind it. The issue is that without visa/mastercard is hard to convince banks and merchants to accept this new currency.

te_chris 7y ago
You mean like the eur, usd, aud, nzd, gbp, jpy? That sort of stable and reliable currency with a strong banking infrastructure?
- lucasverra 7y ago
  yeah, those are the ones you can't sent 2 or 3 units of abroad in a minute by chat, where the receiver is not taxed 2-5%
  - bad_user 7y ago
    There are newer services like Revolut proving that it can be done. All you need is somebody's phone number and the transfer is instant and with no taxes. You can also exchange currency at the interbank exchange rate during the week. And transferring that money to your local bank account is also free of taxes. Not sure if Revolut will last, but I've been very happy with it.
    - manicdee 7y ago
      And then there’s PayID in Australia: “pay anyone using their phone number”. Only the people setting up the processing system decided that all the security required for Visa/MasterCard processing was an obstacle and they didn’t think to implement rate limiting on their facility that provides account details in response to a phone number query. https://www.itnews.com.au/news/aussie-banks-warn-customers-after-fresh-payid-data-breach-529938 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/aussie-banks-warn-customers-a... In this story they refer to a “spike” in queries to the database. What actually happened is that someone tried querying every mobile phone number in Australia.
  - asjw 7y ago
    Why should I send 2 or 3 euros to someone over a chat? In Europe I can authorize a seller to directly take money from my account, if it's money for someone I trust (family, close friends) I can give them my prepaid credit card number and charge it with just the amount they need Do you really think that Libra would make this simpler?
  - jbverschoor 7y ago
    My revolut transaction for eur->cad didn't arrive. Now I have to pull all strings at bth banks to figure out what happened.

buboard 7y ago

I dont buy the idea that Paypal added critical legitimacy to the project. SV companies are a pretty homogeneous interest group, and FB is already one of the largest players. For me libra is trustworthy because it's backed by real money from many governments. It's highly unlikely that facebook would commit real fraud with it, since they both have the cash to pull it through and committing fraud would be devastating to their brand (HN may not like FB , but it is obviously one of the better trusted tech companies). This also opens the way for other more obscure partners to enter the association. That will probably determine its future course

harryf 7y ago
I've got to wonder if Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Stripe and others got involved with this on the principle "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"? Facebook is too big to just crush, so you need a smarter approach. By initially supporting Libra, they got to find out FB's plans, get access to a bunch of market research and see what kind of hurdles they would face if they wanted to launch their own version of the same thing. Then by backing out at the 11th hour, they're able to undermine Libra's credibility before it gets started and make it look like a doomed project.