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Regarding Last Weekend’s Hearthstone Grandmasters Tournament

197 points by tempsy 7y ago

minimaxir 7y ago
> The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision. Needless to say, this line has generated a very large amount of snark on social media.
- sidlls 7y ago
  It's very Orwellian.
- mc32 7y ago
  It almost makes you want to ask “blink twice if you’re saying this against your will,” And the hope is they’d blink twice rather than not blink.
- freeflight 7y ago
  I don't see any way they could have addressed that without the hysteria still spinning it negatively. Because it's not like they mention that out of nowhere: They are directly referring to accusations that they were pressured into shutting that particular player down by the Chinese government. There's a whole lot of people out there who will not be satisfied with any answer contradicting that narrative. Heck, even if Blizzard went out there and would fully admit "The Chinese government pressured us to shut this particular player down", then people would complain how Blizzard could ever buckle to those demands in the first place. The reality is that nobody needed to pressure Blizzard because its competitive scene has already seen quite a number of bans, some controversial, many not, over players using the spotlight to share their particular political messages. It's nothing new and just like they explain in the statement: They do this regardless of the political views being aired, they just consider it not a platform for that. Very comparable to how the Olympics are supposed to be an "unpolitical event", at least in theory.
  - PudgePacket 7y ago
    > I don't see any way they could have addressed that without the hysteria still spinning it negatively. > There's a whole lot of people out there who will not be satisfied with any answer contradicting that narrative. > Heck, even if Blizzard went out there and would fully admit "The Chinese government pressured us to shut this particular player down", then people would complain how Blizzard could ever buckle to those demands in the first place. Exactly. They did a shit thing and now there's shit on their face, of course it's going to be a negative outcome. There isn't always magic words they can say to make everything better again.
  - wpietri 7y ago
    Blizzard's construction of "unpolitical" is itself very political. The notion that people should hide who they are and what matters to them except as it's compatible with profit maximization is stridently political. Ditto the notion that even if people are killed six inches outside the venue for political reasons, everybody inside the venue should pretend everything's fine. I do give points to Blizzard for the amount of Orwellian doublespeak here. They were just compelled to punish and deplatform because of their values of "Thinking Globally, Leading Responsibly, and Every Voice Matters!" Certainly nothing political about that!
    - freeflight 7y ago
      > The notion that people should hide who they are and what matters to them except as it's compatible with profit maximization is stridently political. Yet that's exactly what most major publishers have been doing with their crackdown on toxicity. We've created these "safe spaces" where anything that could be interpreted as even remotely controversial is off-limits and ban-worthy because profit maximation is the only actual goal for a company like Blizzard.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    > Heck, even if Blizzard went out there and would fully admit "The Chinese government pressured us to shut this particular player down", then people would complain how Blizzard could ever buckle to those demands in the first place. No. There are two fan axes here: agreement and respect. Companies (and your comment) seem to focus on the former, while being completely oblivious to the latter. If Blizzard had said "Our Chinese economic interests pressured us into doing this" they would have faced intense disagreement. But, they would have retained as least a modicum of respect. Instead, they forfeited both. And really? Putting out equivocal PR fluff in response to an issue in 2019? Activision-Blizzard's entire Communications department should be sacked.
- dyeje 7y ago
  This part really sours the whole statement. Blizzard fans WANT to forgive them, and instead of coming clean Blizz spit in their faces. Also, changing the suspension period of the casters is a joke, they will clearly never work with Blizz again regardless of the 'official' length of the suspension.
anonymousiam 7y ago
Why would Blizzard bother to lie about this? I guess they're trying to recover from all of the negative press, but it looks like they're just digging themselves into a deeper hole.
- netsharc 7y ago
  Maybe it's to sway people who are on the fence, if such a demographic actually exists. This statement might be enough for them to think "See, Blizzard isn't that bad, from now on I will assume the people still complaining are the wrong ones, and I will say 'Blizzard apologized, what more do you want?!?'.". Maybe the CEO even thinks "you can't make everyone happy, at least I did something.". And in the back of his head he probably thinks "but make sure China is happy!".
- TillE 7y ago
  The lies are weird. They're claiming they would have snapped off a 12 month ban for saying any political slogan, which is...insane. Wildly disproportionate. Not even a little plausible. There's no explanation for Blizzard's actions that does not include feared pressure from China, and it's just insulting for them to claim otherwise.
undefined3840 7y ago
I’m not a gamer, but I imagine most are smart enough to see through this cringe-y PR disaster. Late Friday night dump of nonsense corporate speak is painfully predictable. This will do more harm than good. Yikes.
- bipolar_lisper 7y ago
  Oh they absolutely are not. You should see the way people have always, and will always defend this company.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    I dunno, the hearthstone subreddit still seems pretty angry...
  - minimaxir 7y ago
    Scanning social media, I haven't seen a single gaming influencer say it's a sufficient statement: https://twitter.com/search?q=filter%3Averified%20https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FBlizzard_Ent%2Fstatus%2F1182813270639431681&src=typed_query&f=live https://twitter.com/search?q=filter%3Averified%20https%3A%2F... The contrarian viewpoint is "what were you expecting?" in which case the reply is "an actual apology."
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      Or even a hamfisted attempt at an apology like you get out of many PR departments. The only thing that remotely resembles an apology in the whole release is: > In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly. No explanation of how that happened. No discussion about what they are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not even saying, "We made a snap decision and it was wrong." It seems to be saying, "We made all the right decisions, but we're going to tune the degree a little."
      - Majromax 7y ago
        >> In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly. I'm not even sure here what "reacted too quickly" means. If the player did clearly violate an unobjectionable Blizzard policy, one would hope that the sanction would be swift -- it shouldn't take a week to (for example) ban a player for blatant cheating.
bipolar_lisper 7y ago
Blizzard: > If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same. Also Blizzard: > We will defend the pride of our nation (that nation being China) So when will they be terminating the people in their company that posted that announcement on behalf of the company? Oh wait, they won't be, because this company is completely and utterly full of shit. This is a company that will ban players for using naughty words, but won't ban a country from the market place for actual real life atrocities. People like this make me ashamed to be American. Honesty and integrity mean nothing in this country. All people care about is whether you use nice words.
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  The word “nation” as you quoted above isn’t present in the post by Blizzard linked here. Is your quote from another Blizzard statement somewhere?
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    It was posted by Blizzard's partner in China, NetEase, on an official Blizzard account on weibo.
    - Maxious 7y ago
      https://au.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-blizzard-account-doubles-down-on-political-policy https://au.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-bliz...
- belltaco 7y ago
  >We will defend the pride of our nation That statement was made by NetEase, a Chinese company, not Blizzard.
  - lisp-missionary 7y ago
    It was made by a company that works for blizzard under blizzard's name as an official blizzard response to the event. Your failure to include this information makes it look like you are attempting to mislead people.
Pfhreak 7y ago
Not a great look. This line: > The actions that we took over the weekend are causing people to question if we are still committed to these values. We absolutely are and I will explain. Is basically saying, "What we did actually exemplifies our values", or maybe saying, "Well actually, our values..." Combined with the complete lack of acknowledgement of wrongdoing and not addressing their initial online response at all, I don't expect this will smooth things over at all.
- diminoten 7y ago
  Lack of acknowledgement? They reduced the penalties, both for the casters and the player...
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    From 'far too severe' to 'too severe'? They basically doubled down and said they had done the right thing.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      I'm sorry if you don't know what "acknowledge" means, but reducing the penalty is an acknowledgement, even if you don't think it's enough.
  - ivalm 7y ago
    The only reasonable response is removal of all penalties and an apology, anything short of that is insufficient.
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      I dunno, I'd understand a one game suspension or a warning or something. I am sympathetic to not wanting to turn winner's interviews into soapboxes. I'd expect a bit of training for the casters -- here's what you could have done differently. But 6 months is outlandish.
ayakura 7y ago
My own take throughout the whole thing is similar to Brian Kibler's [1]. To me, even though it made sense that Blizzard wanted to stay neutral, the punishment was too severe for all of the people involved (zero prize money, 1 year ban) so it's nice that at least one of them was reverted. [1]: http://bmkgaming.com/statement-on-blitzchung/ http://bmkgaming.com/statement-on-blitzchung/ Sidenote, Linus is reading the statement on the WAN show and he mentioned that Blizzard was "Lawful Evil." That's a pretty solid way to put it
- aasasd 7y ago
  Dunno about version 3 or later, but in the classic system ‘lawful’ means adhering to strict principles and ‘evil’ means selfish with disregard to others. So I'm pretty sure Blizzard is either chaotic or neutral, what with it trying to appease both sides at once. And probably neutral on the good-evil axis, since it passably honestly trades its games for the money.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    Are there any multinationals that aren't chaotic evil, posing as lawful neutral?
- anthony_doan 7y ago
  > it made sense that Blizzard wanted to stay neutral To me it made sense that Blizzard wanted China's money, see diablo mobile. "Do you guys not have phones?" Also there are reports Blizzard is stopping people from deleting their accounts.
  - 013a 7y ago
    I ran into that "stopping from being able to delete your account" thing with regards to the SMS code to verify your account. Its definitely real, at least for some people. My suspicion, however, is that it was an unintentional bug on their end. We've all seen this before in engineering. You're using some service like Twilio. You've got a TON of people trying to cancel their account at the same time, using SMS verification. Their backend trips a rate limiter or account limit. You don't handle the error properly, and the client gets an inaccurate error. Its a story as old as time. I went through the drivers license verification just fine. Its totally possible that they're being malicious, but its just so much more likely that engineering fucked up and it was blown out of proportion.
falcolas 7y ago
I might believe this, if the American team who made the exact same statement (pro-Hong Kong) in a virtually identical context (on a stream with shoutcasters) had received the same punishment. They didn’t. They didn’t receive any punishment, they were immediately moved on to the next match. So, Blizzard is not acting any anything resembling consistently on this matter. Some voices matter more than others; in this case Blizzard’s business with China has proven to matter more than allowing someone to “share their point of view”. #boycottblizzard still stands.
- scruple 7y ago
  Yes. It's hypocritical. It's very easy to see through.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  This is so hypocritical and absurd that I assumed you had to be exaggerating but you weren't at all: https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-free-hong-kong-1838953931 https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-f...
- darepublic 7y ago
  Well the real test of hypocrisy is if someone made a statement in support of China on the same topic in a streamed event. Or if someone made a comment about any divisive issue from any side. Note I am saying it's a test of hypocrisy not whether their policy is "moral" or not
  - bcrosby95 7y ago
    The reality is companies are in the politics of pandering to gain the largest audience possible. Blizzard is perfectly fine with western participants wearing things such as gay pride clothing (sadly a social/political issue) because it's popular with their audience. But they don't like what happened here because it isn't popular with their audience in China. So of course it has to do with China. If they knew it wouldn't get them kicked out, and most of their potential players in China supported the issue, they wouldn't have cared. Because that's exactly how they handle social/political issues in the west.
lisp-missionary 7y ago
tl;dr Our top analysts have determined that the amount of money lost by people being upset about this is still less than the amount we would lose by losing business with China.
mcphage 7y ago
> The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision. It’s depressing how stupid he thinks we are.
egdod 7y ago
Just shameful. They are taking the side of a repressive regime over a player expressing support for universal values. Mealy-mouthed corpospeak will not save you now.
joobus 7y ago
Can’t they just admit they like money more than free speech or democracy?
hprotagonist 7y ago
Ah, yes. Mealy-mouthed corporate nonsense. That'll shut the rabble up!
PavlovsCat 7y ago
> One of our goals at Blizzard is to make sure that every player, everywhere in the world, regardless of political views, religious beliefs, race, gender, or any other consideration always feels safe [..] playing our games This HN comment from 6 years ago comes to mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6154475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6154475
- scruple 7y ago
  Thank you for sharing this. That is... What an incredible thing to think about. For > 6 years, the CCP may have been using _WoW_ to _literally spy_ on it's citizens and Blizzard would've been _completely complicit_. What's maybe most surprising to me, sitting here today with the benefit of hindsight, is how much that simple comment says about the rest of the 2010 decade that proceeded it. How it all _looks_ true and how the veil seems to be lifting so quickly (on how far reaching the CCPs influence is).
- b0ner_t0ner 7y ago
  Could that have been Grummz? https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1181736075775004672 https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1181736075775004672
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    No idea if he is, but thanks for that. Here it is in a more readable format, or least, in a not-on-Twitter format :) ------------- This hurts. But until Blizzard reverses their decision on blitzchungHS I am giving up playing Classic WoW, which I helped make and helped convince Blizzard to relaunch. There will be no Mark of Kern guild after all. Let me explain why I am #BoycottBlizzard. I am ethnically Chinese. I was born in Taiwan and I lived in Hong Kong for a time. I have done buisiness with China for many years, with serveral gaming companies there. So I think I have a valid perspective here, having been a Team Lead at Blizzard and having grown up in Asia. I have watched China slowly take over as the dominant investing force in gaming and movies over the years. It’s a shame US companies never believed as strongly as China and Asia in investing in games, but this allowed China to have unprecedented influence over our media. Chinese game companies have grown huge not just because of market size, but because the government subsidizes them. They get free land, free offices, and huge infusions of cash. This cash was and is used to do expand and buy up stakes in US gaming companies. I’ve seen firsthand the corruption of Chinese gaming companies, and I was removed from a company I founded (after Blizzard) for refusing to take a 2 million dollar kickback bribe to take an investment from China. This is the first time I’ve ever spoken pubically about it. I’ve also seen how American company reps in China have been offered similar bribes to get licenses for large AAA titles. Not everyone refused like I did. Chinese companies tried to ruin my career with planted press stories. Money is often paid for favorable press in China and some of that money flows here to the US as well. Unfortunately, money talks. China has succeeded in infiltrating all levels of tech, gaming and more. Unfortunately, US and European companies are loath to take risks and invest in game companies legally as much as China was. China remained one of the few places mid tier studios could get funding. So again, China influence grew. I’m sure this is the same for movies as well. But now we are in a situation where unlimited Communist money dictates our American values. We censor our games for China, we censor our movies for China. Now, game companies are silencing voices for freedom and democracy. China is dictating that the world be authoritarian. Of all the companies in the world, Blizzard is the LAST company I ever expected to give in to China’s demands. Blizzard was always about “gamer first” and “don’t be greedy.” At least, it was when I was there. It’s one thing to keep politics out of games, which I am still a proponent of doing. It’s another to unfairly and harshly punish voices that speak out against corruption, against abuses of human rights, and freedom. I take a huge risk by saying this. China monitors all social media and I know this means that we will probably never get an investment from China for my new MMO, and probably never get a license to operate there. But enough is enough. I stand with Hong Kong, and I oppose Blizzard’s obvious and laughably transparent fear of China. It’s time for Blizzard to grow the spine it used to have, and to do what’s right for gamers once again. Gamers, rise up. And yes, this means I will be refusing any deal for Epic exclusivity. The money comes from Tencent. Em8ER will never be an Epic game store exclusive. This might mean we never make a dime, but more is at stake now than just games. A line has to be drawn, and I’m drawing it now.
ajhurliman 7y ago
"We don't want to lose money from the Chinese market, but we also don't want to lose money from the American market, we're not really sure what to do and have no moral guidance on the situation, will you accept this double-talk and continue paying us?"
mewse-hn 7y ago
This part descends to absurdity: > Every Voice Matters, and we strongly encourage everyone in our community to share their viewpoints in the many places available to express themselves. However, the official broadcast needs to be about the tournament and to be a place where all are welcome. In support of that, we want to keep the official channels focused on the game. One of their core values is "every voice matters" and with this paragraph they are trying to twist it from what it actually means, to supporting their decision to suppress dissent
- nmca 7y ago
  Right? It's fucked to the point of comical absurdity. How on earth did they let anyone write this?
derefr 7y ago
Question for all of y'all: what would happen if an Olympic athlete expressed or signalled a strong political view (beyond just "my country good, your country bad") during an official Olympic ceremony?
- smacktoward 7y ago
  You mean like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu... ?
- elif 7y ago
  Then they would have worked their whole lives for something larger and more meaningful than their own individual abilities, and in the process, shown two forms of strength instead of one.
- bertil 7y ago
  It has happened multiple time before —almost often in Football Association— and the official reaction are generally to treat those with mild disapproval for “outbursts”. The message is clearer: athletes are welcome to advocate away from the pitch, but until they leave the podium, they should focus on the sport. Sanctions are typically adapted: symbolic at most for something unsurprising (a Black athlete campaigning for racial equality, an athlete defending a popular political movement in their home country) and stronger for something heinous (a football made Nazi references).
jimmyvalmer 7y ago
Wish bigwigs would keep it brief and to the point. This was all I need to hear: > official broadcasts [should] remain focused on the game and are not a > platform for divisive social or political views. Same goes with NFL and the kneeling. Just say "hey, we're a business" and leave it at that. Hate all the moralizing.
- minimaxir 7y ago
  That response would unequivocally make the situation worse.
- jimmyvalmer 7y ago
  Brack's statement is close to 1,000 words. My tiny brain gets indignant when it has to focus that long on something so mealy-mouthed.
- wpietri 7y ago
  You do realize that "our profit is more important than your people dying" is also moralizing, right?
  - jimmyvalmer 7y ago
    You can argue Blizzard puts profits over free expression (every company does to varying degrees). It's absurd to say the kid's obtuse outburst, if left uncensured, saves lives.
    - cm2012 7y ago
      It's really not. If no one makes a stink about HK publically, China can get away with awful things there. You can't be shy about calling out tyrants.
    - josefx 7y ago
      > (every company does to varying degrees). That is where the problem comes in, it isn't a single censored outburst by a single player and not a single company doing the censoring. China is using that uncaring greed to ensure that these protests are censored on a larger scale.
scruple 7y ago
Reads like a typical corporate response. Sanitized by lawyers, PR, and executives. It says nothing substantial. It's trying to ride the middle ground but it's just flat out contradictory in the face of their actions these past few days. Very sad. Whatever piece of the original Blizzard may have been left in Irvine is surely on life support from the beating that Activision has been giving it for the last decade(s).
- icu 7y ago
  I just don't think there is any of the original Blizzard left, except maybe the artists. WoW has tanked in gameplay, the Diablo franchise has been starved, and then forced into something it's not... Heroes of the Storm has been killed off, Starcraft has been starved. Classic WoW (old IP), Hearthstone (lets be fair it's a casual mobile game) and Overwatch (just another shooter) are pretty much it sadly.
aasasd 7y ago
> If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same. So now some Chinese player should make a statement praising China and condemning Hong Kong. (But I've already said it: with Blizzard controlling a huge money market in WoW and China being big on farming that gold all day every day, there's zero chance Blizzard would give that up.)
- aasasd 7y ago
  By the way, does anyone know what the estimates are for the size of the in-game economy in WoW: items, characters, currency/jewelry, etc? I've heard some claims that would sober me right up, but dunno if those were too fictional.
  - lisp-missionary 7y ago
    It's probably higher than whatever number you've seen. This is coming from someone that has been monetarily involved in this space.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    If you're talking in real-world currency, then the size of the ingame economy is the sum of the maximums each player would be willing to spend for things in the game. Any other calculations are just cryptocurrency-esque market cap dreams.
    - y4mi 7y ago
      its not as clear cut in WoW's case. you got blizzard selling game time tokens which players can sell on the auction house for atm ~230k gold. and this isnt just an option, but something done extremely frequently. tokens are usually sold within one day. (and blizzard takes ~40% more € for that token than a subscription would take, so blizzard actually has a massive profit margin there)
      - ethbro 7y ago
ixtli 7y ago
It’s extremely irresponsible for blizzard to host a massive platform for speech and pretend that platform exists in a vacuum outside of current events. (Read: politics.) In the same way that public platforms are dangerous when used for hate speech, they’re also dangerous when those advocating for positive change are banned from them. Whatever Blizzard set out to do, it’s exceptionally naive not to acknowledge that demand changes a public technology. … but of course we know what this is about. We know it’s about not wanting to cut off a large revenue stream.
- anonimouse5t43w 7y ago
  FIFA also bans politics from its platform.
  - throwaway2048 7y ago
    Blizzard dosen't give a shit about it being political speech, what they care about is that it might upset the Chinese Communist Party, and their profits in the process. https://i.imgur.com/xQfRoPa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/xQfRoPa.jpg https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-free-hong-kong-1838953931 https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-f... Them pretending otherwise is a complete, outright lie.
  - bertil 7y ago
    I’m surprised to quote FIFA as an example but on that point, they have had fairly exemplary approach [0]. Players occasionally try to make political statements, and Fifa has a progressive take on infractions. An unexpected outburst after a victory is usually met with a stern conversation, possibly leaked to the press for good measure; repeated offence, something egregious acting after being explicitly warned not to lead to symbolic fines. You’d need to really cross a line to get near the sanction that Blizzard thought was appropriate for someone expressing a widespread sentiment in his home country. [0] https://www.lawinsport.com/content/sports/item/politics-and-sport-how-fifa-uefa-and-the-ioc-regulate-political-statements-by-athletes https://www.lawinsport.com/content/sports/item/politics-and-...
  - ixtli 7y ago
belltaco 7y ago
Summary of changes made: * Blitzchung will receive all his prize money. * Bliztchung's suspension from pro play halved to 6 months * Casters will now be allowed to cast Blizzard events after 6 months Key statements: * In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly * The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision. * We have these rules to keep the focus on the game and on the tournament to the benefit of a global audience, and that was the only consideration in the actions we took. * If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same. Source: Reddit comment
- dang 7y ago
  When quoting an external source here, please provide the link. https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/dgnqpj/blizzard_regarding_last_weekends_hearthstone/f3dlgnp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/dgnqp...
- CosmicShadow 7y ago
  Heh, feels like reading Blizzard patch notes!
- Arwill 7y ago
  Imagine a comparable situation. Someone wins an olympic medal, and makes a political statement in the subsequent interview. Then the olympic committee decides to take the medal away, and ban the winner from competing again.
  - deleted 7y ago
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mullingitover 7y ago
Command + f "sorry": 0 results Command + f "mistake": 0 results Command + f "apologize": 0 results They still aren't listening to a PR expert, and this is only going to throw gasoline on the fire. This blog post [1] counseling Burning Man back in their dumpster fire of pain when they switched to a lottery system is very instructional, Blizzard should be following it to the letter if they intend to get out of this hole. [1] https://alyssaroyse.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/burning-the-man-burning-mans-ticket-pr-fiasco/ https://alyssaroyse.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/burning-the-man...
- taneq 7y ago
  > They still aren't listening to a PR expert, and this is only going to throw gasoline on the fire. Of course, if they had listened to a PR expert and written a first-rate apology letter, then we'd be calling them out as insincere and saying it was just PR fluff, a la the StackExchange letter recently.
  - larkeith 7y ago
    Still, even an insincere apology has a far better taste than none at all.
  - JeremyBanks 7y ago
    That's mistaken. Everybody called out the first Stack apology because it was like this -- not an apology. The second Stack apology was much better recieved because it was actually written as an apology, even through their actions didn't change at all.
  - KhalilK 7y ago
    They were put in a lose-lose situation from the start.
    - hgoel 7y ago
      Yep, however that way they'd atleast have a better chance of reducing the impact the drama is gonna have on blizzcon.
cpeterso 7y ago
Ellen Pao (former Reddit CEO): "Tech companies: We tolerate harassment and hate so we can enable political dissent, public squares, free speech Also tech companies: Censor the Hong Kong protestors and kill all their communication channels" https://twitter.com/ekp/status/1182710608887611394?s=21 https://twitter.com/ekp/status/1182710608887611394?s=21
- anonimouse5t43w 7y ago
  Didn’t she ban a lot of subreddits?
  - kick 7y ago
    She's mocking the free speech line in that tweet.
  - bertil 7y ago
    Reddit has to make a lot of decisions, some were soon after she joined. Not sure CEOs of social media company get involved in making that decision personally, rather than name people who would -- Pao might be an exception, though. From all the subreddits that were closed, I’d be hard-pressed to name one that I felt contributed to free speech.
    - effingwewt 7y ago
      She absolutely was intimately involved, a lot of her drama and changes were the reason I left that site for good. She is correct in her tweet, however. Also once upon a time reddit praised itself for free speech. It held itself to a higher standard... supposedly.
      - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
        care to share the groups that were banned you disagreed with?
    - A2017U1 7y ago
gpm 7y ago
<can't delete>
- belltaco 7y ago
  <can't delete>
  - caconym_ 7y ago
    What statement? GP was "deleted".
caconym_ 7y ago
It's not even hard to avoid giving Blizzard money these days. I suppose one must immerse oneself in the scientific system of Mao Zedong thought to see the truth—that Diablo is best played on a smartphone.
dkural 7y ago
False equivalence. One group is oppressing the other group, and the oppressed are told to shut up because the oppressor's feelings will get hurt and will make the Blizzard's community feel less diverse and inclusive .. facepalm ..
ekianjo 7y ago
Wow so many lines of PR fluff to basically say we have to make sure everyone obeys China's view of the world. blizzard, that post was completely useless unless you wanted to reinforce the impression you have no values other than big profits.
deleted 7y ago
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mirimir 7y ago
That piece is for sure loaded with weasel wording. But on the other hand, blitzchung might have said or done many things during his segment. And just about everyone who is upset about Blizzard booting blitzchung here would demand that they boot him for at least some of those. Say, if he had ranted about gender issues, for example. As always, perceptions depend on whose ox is getting gored.
aaron695 7y ago
What's people issue here? If he talked about the sanctity of marriage and how under a christian system gay people should not be allow to marry and how they will go to christian hell..... would we be as equally outraged they got fired over inserting free speech into a sporting tournament? Or is this about how we expect corporations to follow our morals? Which as a billion Westeners is mostly pro Hong Kong, which as a billion Chinese mostly pro China, on this issue. There's a good argument corporations should be apolitical and amoral on issues outside their domain, which in this direct case Blizzard is doing. I need evidence they allow the opposite, pro China speech, to be outraged here.
anm89 7y ago
If I had to translate this from corporate speak into the real world it would go something like "fuck off, we are following the money"
randallsquared 7y ago
> We now believe he should receive his prizing. We understand that for some this is not about the prize, and perhaps for others it is disrespectful to even discuss it. That is not our intention. It's a little weird that they say they "believe he should receive" his prize, rather than saying that he actually will. It's hard to think of a reason they would word it that way, except to give the false impression that he's getting the prize he won.
- natch 7y ago
  Wow yes that really is odd, thanks for pointing it out. Not proud to say it, but their statement fooled me (made me skim right past it thinking what they wanted me to think) the first time.
Gonzih 7y ago
I feel like this is Activision and not Blizzard talking.
- lisp-missionary 7y ago
  I feel like this is Joshua and not Josh talking.
chloerei 7y ago
I support Blizzard's decision, it kept the bottom line. I feel ridiculous, in order to support the riots in another country, some people were so passionate. I think this people are affected by anti-China sentiment. I write a post, tell everyone what happened in Hong Kong and try to persuade everyone not to make political opinions so easily, especially if a place is very far away from you. Stand with Hong Kong, but which side? https://chloerei.com/2019/10/11/stand-with-hong-kong-but-which-side/ https://chloerei.com/2019/10/11/stand-with-hong-kong-but-whi... The content may make you uncomfortable because it is different from the reporting position of some Western media. But looking at the problem from multiple angles will give you a more comprehensive understanding.
- dang 7y ago
  I agree with you that in the discussions of these issues on the Western internet sites, anti-China sentiment dominates and often blends with ignorance and prejudice. Unfortunately, if you post like you just did to HN, using inflammatory language like "I saw the hypocrisy of the Americans", you're guaranteed to take the thread further into nationalistic flamewar, and of course such language will be downvoted because it breaks HN's guidelines too (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). So if you're going to continue to post on HN, can you please make sure that your comments stay factual and neutral, and don't pour fuel on the fire? We ask the same of every user here.
  - chloerei 7y ago
    Thanks for reply, I have edited the comments to more gentle.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
14 7y ago
I have a question, what if he was to thank his mom while on a broadcast that would not be about the content of the game either will he be banned for that? Talk about foot in your mouth Blizzard now we can all count down to Blizzcon and watch the fireworks I am sure there will be.
deleted 7y ago
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jimueller 7y ago
Swing and a miss
mellosouls 7y ago
I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision
- zwaps 7y ago
  Yes, I too appreciate being lied to outright in a letter addressed to me Makes me feel really positive about Blizzard
bcrosby95 7y ago
The grammar in this post seems really awkward. It's almost like they cobbled together 3-4 different people's statements, didn't proof read it, then released it. Strange considering they waited so long.
squaresmile 7y ago
I feel like the original decision was so harsh and the optics of it was incredibly bad that this "meet in the middle" resolution still doesn't cut it. It's like when a post-mortem only contains: "In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly." and they don't elaborate more on the inadequacy or the hastiness. Maybe I just want blood but it feels pretty unsatisfying.
66434throwaway 7y ago
The publicity this is getting is amazing. I wonder if protesters supporting Catalonia, Cuba, Venezuela, Kashmir, Sudan, Indonesia, or Palestine did this, if it would get more attention than a single article or thread? Heck, 100 people have been killed in the current Iraq protests and there are less articles and outrage compared to this. Maybe future protests will focus on getting punishments from large companies? Perhaps this is the start of a new type of activism.
nmca 7y ago
This new language of mind-bending corporate doublespeak deserves more parody.
zwaps 7y ago
Digusting. If that had happened in the context of any other unimportant country, where no launch of a mobile game is planned, and which is not in a habit of crying and shouting down foreign press and companies, then Blizzard would have done nothing. In fact, the language used here, about openness and 'feeling welcome' (cf hurt feelings) comes close to the CCP phrasebook. CCP, to remind you, has publicly stated that opinions on China affairs from foreigners and utterings that make people feel unwelcome ot hurt feelings, are not free speech. HK people are fighting for their freedom and their lives. They need public support in the West to have a chance. Blizzard sanctioning them or others for this shows abundently clear on which side this company is!
icu 7y ago
It's a soft peddle statement drafted by the PR department hoping the mainstream media would pick it up. There are too many contradictions between: a) what was said in the statement, and Blizzard's statement made on Chinese social media at the time, and b) the lack of discipline on American tournament players who also protested. Furthermore a written statement is nothing compared to a video, where vocal intonation and body language communicates a lot. Bottom line, releasing this statement will only intensify criticism that Blizzard is "Lawfully Evil". The irony is that Blizzard's fanbase are 'heroes' who overcome evil in their games. Blizzard's actions are the very antithesis of their player bases' psychology. This isn't over, and with Blizzcon around the corner, I predict escalation and Blizzcon being a total PR disaster.
jerome-jh 7y ago
"Our goal is to help players connect in areas of commonality". If you only keep the intersection of all "cultures", you end up with a very small subset.
wcr3 7y ago
absolutely pathetic
blzrdnofreespch 7y ago
Some people think China wrote some or all of this response: https://mobile.twitter.com/SGBluebell/status/1182817588147052544 https://mobile.twitter.com/SGBluebell/status/118281758814705...
- lisp-missionary 7y ago
  I highly recommend anyone following this thread to take a look at those tweets and replies. I thought there was some awkward speech but didnt realize why. What are prizings? This definitely was not written by an English speaker which takes it from corporate BS to totally creepy.
hagreet 7y ago
TLDR: not an apology

197 points by tempsy 7y ago

> The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision. Needless to say, this line has generated a very large amount of snark on social media.

sidlls 7y ago
It's very Orwellian.
mc32 7y ago
It almost makes you want to ask “blink twice if you’re saying this against your will,” And the hope is they’d blink twice rather than not blink.
freeflight 7y ago
I don't see any way they could have addressed that without the hysteria still spinning it negatively. Because it's not like they mention that out of nowhere: They are directly referring to accusations that they were pressured into shutting that particular player down by the Chinese government. There's a whole lot of people out there who will not be satisfied with any answer contradicting that narrative. Heck, even if Blizzard went out there and would fully admit "The Chinese government pressured us to shut this particular player down", then people would complain how Blizzard could ever buckle to those demands in the first place. The reality is that nobody needed to pressure Blizzard because its competitive scene has already seen quite a number of bans, some controversial, many not, over players using the spotlight to share their particular political messages. It's nothing new and just like they explain in the statement: They do this regardless of the political views being aired, they just consider it not a platform for that. Very comparable to how the Olympics are supposed to be an "unpolitical event", at least in theory.
- PudgePacket 7y ago
  > I don't see any way they could have addressed that without the hysteria still spinning it negatively. > There's a whole lot of people out there who will not be satisfied with any answer contradicting that narrative. > Heck, even if Blizzard went out there and would fully admit "The Chinese government pressured us to shut this particular player down", then people would complain how Blizzard could ever buckle to those demands in the first place. Exactly. They did a shit thing and now there's shit on their face, of course it's going to be a negative outcome. There isn't always magic words they can say to make everything better again.
- wpietri 7y ago
  Blizzard's construction of "unpolitical" is itself very political. The notion that people should hide who they are and what matters to them except as it's compatible with profit maximization is stridently political. Ditto the notion that even if people are killed six inches outside the venue for political reasons, everybody inside the venue should pretend everything's fine. I do give points to Blizzard for the amount of Orwellian doublespeak here. They were just compelled to punish and deplatform because of their values of "Thinking Globally, Leading Responsibly, and Every Voice Matters!" Certainly nothing political about that!
  - freeflight 7y ago
    > The notion that people should hide who they are and what matters to them except as it's compatible with profit maximization is stridently political. Yet that's exactly what most major publishers have been doing with their crackdown on toxicity. We've created these "safe spaces" where anything that could be interpreted as even remotely controversial is off-limits and ban-worthy because profit maximation is the only actual goal for a company like Blizzard.
- ethbro 7y ago
  > Heck, even if Blizzard went out there and would fully admit "The Chinese government pressured us to shut this particular player down", then people would complain how Blizzard could ever buckle to those demands in the first place. No. There are two fan axes here: agreement and respect. Companies (and your comment) seem to focus on the former, while being completely oblivious to the latter. If Blizzard had said "Our Chinese economic interests pressured us into doing this" they would have faced intense disagreement. But, they would have retained as least a modicum of respect. Instead, they forfeited both. And really? Putting out equivocal PR fluff in response to an issue in 2019? Activision-Blizzard's entire Communications department should be sacked.
dyeje 7y ago
This part really sours the whole statement. Blizzard fans WANT to forgive them, and instead of coming clean Blizz spit in their faces. Also, changing the suspension period of the casters is a joke, they will clearly never work with Blizz again regardless of the 'official' length of the suspension.

anonymousiam 7y ago

Why would Blizzard bother to lie about this? I guess they're trying to recover from all of the negative press, but it looks like they're just digging themselves into a deeper hole.

netsharc 7y ago
Maybe it's to sway people who are on the fence, if such a demographic actually exists. This statement might be enough for them to think "See, Blizzard isn't that bad, from now on I will assume the people still complaining are the wrong ones, and I will say 'Blizzard apologized, what more do you want?!?'.". Maybe the CEO even thinks "you can't make everyone happy, at least I did something.". And in the back of his head he probably thinks "but make sure China is happy!".
TillE 7y ago
The lies are weird. They're claiming they would have snapped off a 12 month ban for saying any political slogan, which is...insane. Wildly disproportionate. Not even a little plausible. There's no explanation for Blizzard's actions that does not include feared pressure from China, and it's just insulting for them to claim otherwise.

undefined3840 7y ago

I’m not a gamer, but I imagine most are smart enough to see through this cringe-y PR disaster. Late Friday night dump of nonsense corporate speak is painfully predictable. This will do more harm than good. Yikes.

bipolar_lisper 7y ago
Oh they absolutely are not. You should see the way people have always, and will always defend this company.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  I dunno, the hearthstone subreddit still seems pretty angry...
- minimaxir 7y ago
  Scanning social media, I haven't seen a single gaming influencer say it's a sufficient statement: https://twitter.com/search?q=filter%3Averified%20https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FBlizzard_Ent%2Fstatus%2F1182813270639431681&src=typed_query&f=live https://twitter.com/search?q=filter%3Averified%20https%3A%2F... The contrarian viewpoint is "what were you expecting?" in which case the reply is "an actual apology."
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    Or even a hamfisted attempt at an apology like you get out of many PR departments. The only thing that remotely resembles an apology in the whole release is: > In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly. No explanation of how that happened. No discussion about what they are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not even saying, "We made a snap decision and it was wrong." It seems to be saying, "We made all the right decisions, but we're going to tune the degree a little."
    - Majromax 7y ago
      >> In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly. I'm not even sure here what "reacted too quickly" means. If the player did clearly violate an unobjectionable Blizzard policy, one would hope that the sanction would be swift -- it shouldn't take a week to (for example) ban a player for blatant cheating.

bipolar_lisper 7y ago

Blizzard: > If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same. Also Blizzard: > We will defend the pride of our nation (that nation being China) So when will they be terminating the people in their company that posted that announcement on behalf of the company? Oh wait, they won't be, because this company is completely and utterly full of shit. This is a company that will ban players for using naughty words, but won't ban a country from the market place for actual real life atrocities. People like this make me ashamed to be American. Honesty and integrity mean nothing in this country. All people care about is whether you use nice words.

floatingatoll 7y ago
The word “nation” as you quoted above isn’t present in the post by Blizzard linked here. Is your quote from another Blizzard statement somewhere?
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  It was posted by Blizzard's partner in China, NetEase, on an official Blizzard account on weibo.
  - Maxious 7y ago
    https://au.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-blizzard-account-doubles-down-on-political-policy https://au.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-bliz...
belltaco 7y ago
>We will defend the pride of our nation That statement was made by NetEase, a Chinese company, not Blizzard.
- lisp-missionary 7y ago
  It was made by a company that works for blizzard under blizzard's name as an official blizzard response to the event. Your failure to include this information makes it look like you are attempting to mislead people.

Pfhreak 7y ago

Not a great look. This line: > The actions that we took over the weekend are causing people to question if we are still committed to these values. We absolutely are and I will explain. Is basically saying, "What we did actually exemplifies our values", or maybe saying, "Well actually, our values..." Combined with the complete lack of acknowledgement of wrongdoing and not addressing their initial online response at all, I don't expect this will smooth things over at all.

diminoten 7y ago
Lack of acknowledgement? They reduced the penalties, both for the casters and the player...
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  From 'far too severe' to 'too severe'? They basically doubled down and said they had done the right thing.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    I'm sorry if you don't know what "acknowledge" means, but reducing the penalty is an acknowledgement, even if you don't think it's enough.
- ivalm 7y ago
  The only reasonable response is removal of all penalties and an apology, anything short of that is insufficient.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    I dunno, I'd understand a one game suspension or a warning or something. I am sympathetic to not wanting to turn winner's interviews into soapboxes. I'd expect a bit of training for the casters -- here's what you could have done differently. But 6 months is outlandish.

ayakura 7y ago

My own take throughout the whole thing is similar to Brian Kibler's [1]. To me, even though it made sense that Blizzard wanted to stay neutral, the punishment was too severe for all of the people involved (zero prize money, 1 year ban) so it's nice that at least one of them was reverted. [1]: http://bmkgaming.com/statement-on-blitzchung/ http://bmkgaming.com/statement-on-blitzchung/ Sidenote, Linus is reading the statement on the WAN show and he mentioned that Blizzard was "Lawful Evil." That's a pretty solid way to put it

aasasd 7y ago
Dunno about version 3 or later, but in the classic system ‘lawful’ means adhering to strict principles and ‘evil’ means selfish with disregard to others. So I'm pretty sure Blizzard is either chaotic or neutral, what with it trying to appease both sides at once. And probably neutral on the good-evil axis, since it passably honestly trades its games for the money.
- ethbro 7y ago
  Are there any multinationals that aren't chaotic evil, posing as lawful neutral?
anthony_doan 7y ago
> it made sense that Blizzard wanted to stay neutral To me it made sense that Blizzard wanted China's money, see diablo mobile. "Do you guys not have phones?" Also there are reports Blizzard is stopping people from deleting their accounts.
- 013a 7y ago
  I ran into that "stopping from being able to delete your account" thing with regards to the SMS code to verify your account. Its definitely real, at least for some people. My suspicion, however, is that it was an unintentional bug on their end. We've all seen this before in engineering. You're using some service like Twilio. You've got a TON of people trying to cancel their account at the same time, using SMS verification. Their backend trips a rate limiter or account limit. You don't handle the error properly, and the client gets an inaccurate error. Its a story as old as time. I went through the drivers license verification just fine. Its totally possible that they're being malicious, but its just so much more likely that engineering fucked up and it was blown out of proportion.

falcolas 7y ago

I might believe this, if the American team who made the exact same statement (pro-Hong Kong) in a virtually identical context (on a stream with shoutcasters) had received the same punishment. They didn’t. They didn’t receive any punishment, they were immediately moved on to the next match. So, Blizzard is not acting any anything resembling consistently on this matter. Some voices matter more than others; in this case Blizzard’s business with China has proven to matter more than allowing someone to “share their point of view”. #boycottblizzard still stands.

scruple 7y ago
Yes. It's hypocritical. It's very easy to see through.
elliekelly 7y ago
This is so hypocritical and absurd that I assumed you had to be exaggerating but you weren't at all: https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-free-hong-kong-1838953931 https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-f...
darepublic 7y ago
Well the real test of hypocrisy is if someone made a statement in support of China on the same topic in a streamed event. Or if someone made a comment about any divisive issue from any side. Note I am saying it's a test of hypocrisy not whether their policy is "moral" or not
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  The reality is companies are in the politics of pandering to gain the largest audience possible. Blizzard is perfectly fine with western participants wearing things such as gay pride clothing (sadly a social/political issue) because it's popular with their audience. But they don't like what happened here because it isn't popular with their audience in China. So of course it has to do with China. If they knew it wouldn't get them kicked out, and most of their potential players in China supported the issue, they wouldn't have cared. Because that's exactly how they handle social/political issues in the west.

lisp-missionary 7y ago

tl;dr Our top analysts have determined that the amount of money lost by people being upset about this is still less than the amount we would lose by losing business with China.

mcphage 7y ago

> The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision. It’s depressing how stupid he thinks we are.

egdod 7y ago

Just shameful. They are taking the side of a repressive regime over a player expressing support for universal values. Mealy-mouthed corpospeak will not save you now.

joobus 7y ago

Can’t they just admit they like money more than free speech or democracy?

hprotagonist 7y ago

Ah, yes. Mealy-mouthed corporate nonsense. That'll shut the rabble up!

PavlovsCat 7y ago

> One of our goals at Blizzard is to make sure that every player, everywhere in the world, regardless of political views, religious beliefs, race, gender, or any other consideration always feels safe [..] playing our games This HN comment from 6 years ago comes to mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6154475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6154475

scruple 7y ago
Thank you for sharing this. That is... What an incredible thing to think about. For > 6 years, the CCP may have been using _WoW_ to _literally spy_ on it's citizens and Blizzard would've been _completely complicit_. What's maybe most surprising to me, sitting here today with the benefit of hindsight, is how much that simple comment says about the rest of the 2010 decade that proceeded it. How it all _looks_ true and how the veil seems to be lifting so quickly (on how far reaching the CCPs influence is).
b0ner_t0ner 7y ago
Could that have been Grummz? https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1181736075775004672 https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1181736075775004672
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  No idea if he is, but thanks for that. Here it is in a more readable format, or least, in a not-on-Twitter format :) ------------- This hurts. But until Blizzard reverses their decision on blitzchungHS I am giving up playing Classic WoW, which I helped make and helped convince Blizzard to relaunch. There will be no Mark of Kern guild after all. Let me explain why I am #BoycottBlizzard. I am ethnically Chinese. I was born in Taiwan and I lived in Hong Kong for a time. I have done buisiness with China for many years, with serveral gaming companies there. So I think I have a valid perspective here, having been a Team Lead at Blizzard and having grown up in Asia. I have watched China slowly take over as the dominant investing force in gaming and movies over the years. It’s a shame US companies never believed as strongly as China and Asia in investing in games, but this allowed China to have unprecedented influence over our media. Chinese game companies have grown huge not just because of market size, but because the government subsidizes them. They get free land, free offices, and huge infusions of cash. This cash was and is used to do expand and buy up stakes in US gaming companies. I’ve seen firsthand the corruption of Chinese gaming companies, and I was removed from a company I founded (after Blizzard) for refusing to take a 2 million dollar kickback bribe to take an investment from China. This is the first time I’ve ever spoken pubically about it. I’ve also seen how American company reps in China have been offered similar bribes to get licenses for large AAA titles. Not everyone refused like I did. Chinese companies tried to ruin my career with planted press stories. Money is often paid for favorable press in China and some of that money flows here to the US as well. Unfortunately, money talks. China has succeeded in infiltrating all levels of tech, gaming and more. Unfortunately, US and European companies are loath to take risks and invest in game companies legally as much as China was. China remained one of the few places mid tier studios could get funding. So again, China influence grew. I’m sure this is the same for movies as well. But now we are in a situation where unlimited Communist money dictates our American values. We censor our games for China, we censor our movies for China. Now, game companies are silencing voices for freedom and democracy. China is dictating that the world be authoritarian. Of all the companies in the world, Blizzard is the LAST company I ever expected to give in to China’s demands. Blizzard was always about “gamer first” and “don’t be greedy.” At least, it was when I was there. It’s one thing to keep politics out of games, which I am still a proponent of doing. It’s another to unfairly and harshly punish voices that speak out against corruption, against abuses of human rights, and freedom. I take a huge risk by saying this. China monitors all social media and I know this means that we will probably never get an investment from China for my new MMO, and probably never get a license to operate there. But enough is enough. I stand with Hong Kong, and I oppose Blizzard’s obvious and laughably transparent fear of China. It’s time for Blizzard to grow the spine it used to have, and to do what’s right for gamers once again. Gamers, rise up. And yes, this means I will be refusing any deal for Epic exclusivity. The money comes from Tencent. Em8ER will never be an Epic game store exclusive. This might mean we never make a dime, but more is at stake now than just games. A line has to be drawn, and I’m drawing it now.

ajhurliman 7y ago

"We don't want to lose money from the Chinese market, but we also don't want to lose money from the American market, we're not really sure what to do and have no moral guidance on the situation, will you accept this double-talk and continue paying us?"

mewse-hn 7y ago

This part descends to absurdity: > Every Voice Matters, and we strongly encourage everyone in our community to share their viewpoints in the many places available to express themselves. However, the official broadcast needs to be about the tournament and to be a place where all are welcome. In support of that, we want to keep the official channels focused on the game. One of their core values is "every voice matters" and with this paragraph they are trying to twist it from what it actually means, to supporting their decision to suppress dissent

nmca 7y ago
Right? It's fucked to the point of comical absurdity. How on earth did they let anyone write this?

derefr 7y ago

Question for all of y'all: what would happen if an Olympic athlete expressed or signalled a strong political view (beyond just "my country good, your country bad") during an official Olympic ceremony?

smacktoward 7y ago
You mean like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu... ?
elif 7y ago
Then they would have worked their whole lives for something larger and more meaningful than their own individual abilities, and in the process, shown two forms of strength instead of one.
bertil 7y ago
It has happened multiple time before —almost often in Football Association— and the official reaction are generally to treat those with mild disapproval for “outbursts”. The message is clearer: athletes are welcome to advocate away from the pitch, but until they leave the podium, they should focus on the sport. Sanctions are typically adapted: symbolic at most for something unsurprising (a Black athlete campaigning for racial equality, an athlete defending a popular political movement in their home country) and stronger for something heinous (a football made Nazi references).

jimmyvalmer 7y ago

Wish bigwigs would keep it brief and to the point. This was all I need to hear: > official broadcasts [should] remain focused on the game and are not a > platform for divisive social or political views. Same goes with NFL and the kneeling. Just say "hey, we're a business" and leave it at that. Hate all the moralizing.

minimaxir 7y ago
That response would unequivocally make the situation worse.
jimmyvalmer 7y ago
Brack's statement is close to 1,000 words. My tiny brain gets indignant when it has to focus that long on something so mealy-mouthed.
wpietri 7y ago
You do realize that "our profit is more important than your people dying" is also moralizing, right?
- jimmyvalmer 7y ago
  You can argue Blizzard puts profits over free expression (every company does to varying degrees). It's absurd to say the kid's obtuse outburst, if left uncensured, saves lives.
  - cm2012 7y ago
    It's really not. If no one makes a stink about HK publically, China can get away with awful things there. You can't be shy about calling out tyrants.
  - josefx 7y ago
    > (every company does to varying degrees). That is where the problem comes in, it isn't a single censored outburst by a single player and not a single company doing the censoring. China is using that uncaring greed to ensure that these protests are censored on a larger scale.

scruple 7y ago

Reads like a typical corporate response. Sanitized by lawyers, PR, and executives. It says nothing substantial. It's trying to ride the middle ground but it's just flat out contradictory in the face of their actions these past few days. Very sad. Whatever piece of the original Blizzard may have been left in Irvine is surely on life support from the beating that Activision has been giving it for the last decade(s).

icu 7y ago
I just don't think there is any of the original Blizzard left, except maybe the artists. WoW has tanked in gameplay, the Diablo franchise has been starved, and then forced into something it's not... Heroes of the Storm has been killed off, Starcraft has been starved. Classic WoW (old IP), Hearthstone (lets be fair it's a casual mobile game) and Overwatch (just another shooter) are pretty much it sadly.

aasasd 7y ago

> If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same. So now some Chinese player should make a statement praising China and condemning Hong Kong. (But I've already said it: with Blizzard controlling a huge money market in WoW and China being big on farming that gold all day every day, there's zero chance Blizzard would give that up.)

aasasd 7y ago
By the way, does anyone know what the estimates are for the size of the in-game economy in WoW: items, characters, currency/jewelry, etc? I've heard some claims that would sober me right up, but dunno if those were too fictional.
- lisp-missionary 7y ago
  It's probably higher than whatever number you've seen. This is coming from someone that has been monetarily involved in this space.
- ethbro 7y ago
  If you're talking in real-world currency, then the size of the ingame economy is the sum of the maximums each player would be willing to spend for things in the game. Any other calculations are just cryptocurrency-esque market cap dreams.
  - y4mi 7y ago
    its not as clear cut in WoW's case. you got blizzard selling game time tokens which players can sell on the auction house for atm ~230k gold. and this isnt just an option, but something done extremely frequently. tokens are usually sold within one day. (and blizzard takes ~40% more € for that token than a subscription would take, so blizzard actually has a massive profit margin there)
    - ethbro 7y ago

ixtli 7y ago

It’s extremely irresponsible for blizzard to host a massive platform for speech and pretend that platform exists in a vacuum outside of current events. (Read: politics.) In the same way that public platforms are dangerous when used for hate speech, they’re also dangerous when those advocating for positive change are banned from them. Whatever Blizzard set out to do, it’s exceptionally naive not to acknowledge that demand changes a public technology. … but of course we know what this is about. We know it’s about not wanting to cut off a large revenue stream.

anonimouse5t43w 7y ago
FIFA also bans politics from its platform.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  Blizzard dosen't give a shit about it being political speech, what they care about is that it might upset the Chinese Communist Party, and their profits in the process. https://i.imgur.com/xQfRoPa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/xQfRoPa.jpg https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-free-hong-kong-1838953931 https://kotaku.com/college-hearthstone-players-who-held-up-f... Them pretending otherwise is a complete, outright lie.
- bertil 7y ago
  I’m surprised to quote FIFA as an example but on that point, they have had fairly exemplary approach [0]. Players occasionally try to make political statements, and Fifa has a progressive take on infractions. An unexpected outburst after a victory is usually met with a stern conversation, possibly leaked to the press for good measure; repeated offence, something egregious acting after being explicitly warned not to lead to symbolic fines. You’d need to really cross a line to get near the sanction that Blizzard thought was appropriate for someone expressing a widespread sentiment in his home country. [0] https://www.lawinsport.com/content/sports/item/politics-and-sport-how-fifa-uefa-and-the-ioc-regulate-political-statements-by-athletes https://www.lawinsport.com/content/sports/item/politics-and-...
- ixtli 7y ago

belltaco 7y ago

Summary of changes made: * Blitzchung will receive all his prize money. * Bliztchung's suspension from pro play halved to 6 months * Casters will now be allowed to cast Blizzard events after 6 months Key statements: * In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly * The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision. * We have these rules to keep the focus on the game and on the tournament to the benefit of a global audience, and that was the only consideration in the actions we took. * If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same. Source: Reddit comment

dang 7y ago
When quoting an external source here, please provide the link. https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/dgnqpj/blizzard_regarding_last_weekends_hearthstone/f3dlgnp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/dgnqp...
CosmicShadow 7y ago
Heh, feels like reading Blizzard patch notes!
Arwill 7y ago
Imagine a comparable situation. Someone wins an olympic medal, and makes a political statement in the subsequent interview. Then the olympic committee decides to take the medal away, and ban the winner from competing again.
- deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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mullingitover 7y ago

Command + f "sorry": 0 results Command + f "mistake": 0 results Command + f "apologize": 0 results They still aren't listening to a PR expert, and this is only going to throw gasoline on the fire. This blog post [1] counseling Burning Man back in their dumpster fire of pain when they switched to a lottery system is very instructional, Blizzard should be following it to the letter if they intend to get out of this hole. [1] https://alyssaroyse.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/burning-the-man-burning-mans-ticket-pr-fiasco/ https://alyssaroyse.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/burning-the-man...

taneq 7y ago
> They still aren't listening to a PR expert, and this is only going to throw gasoline on the fire. Of course, if they had listened to a PR expert and written a first-rate apology letter, then we'd be calling them out as insincere and saying it was just PR fluff, a la the StackExchange letter recently.
- larkeith 7y ago
  Still, even an insincere apology has a far better taste than none at all.
- JeremyBanks 7y ago
  That's mistaken. Everybody called out the first Stack apology because it was like this -- not an apology. The second Stack apology was much better recieved because it was actually written as an apology, even through their actions didn't change at all.
- KhalilK 7y ago
  They were put in a lose-lose situation from the start.
  - hgoel 7y ago
    Yep, however that way they'd atleast have a better chance of reducing the impact the drama is gonna have on blizzcon.

cpeterso 7y ago

Ellen Pao (former Reddit CEO): "Tech companies: We tolerate harassment and hate so we can enable political dissent, public squares, free speech Also tech companies: Censor the Hong Kong protestors and kill all their communication channels" https://twitter.com/ekp/status/1182710608887611394?s=21 https://twitter.com/ekp/status/1182710608887611394?s=21

anonimouse5t43w 7y ago
Didn’t she ban a lot of subreddits?
- kick 7y ago
  She's mocking the free speech line in that tweet.
- bertil 7y ago
  Reddit has to make a lot of decisions, some were soon after she joined. Not sure CEOs of social media company get involved in making that decision personally, rather than name people who would -- Pao might be an exception, though. From all the subreddits that were closed, I’d be hard-pressed to name one that I felt contributed to free speech.
  - effingwewt 7y ago
    She absolutely was intimately involved, a lot of her drama and changes were the reason I left that site for good. She is correct in her tweet, however. Also once upon a time reddit praised itself for free speech. It held itself to a higher standard... supposedly.
    - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
      care to share the groups that were banned you disagreed with?
  - A2017U1 7y ago

gpm 7y ago

<can't delete>

belltaco 7y ago
<can't delete>
- caconym_ 7y ago
  What statement? GP was "deleted".

caconym_ 7y ago

It's not even hard to avoid giving Blizzard money these days. I suppose one must immerse oneself in the scientific system of Mao Zedong thought to see the truth—that Diablo is best played on a smartphone.

dkural 7y ago

False equivalence. One group is oppressing the other group, and the oppressed are told to shut up because the oppressor's feelings will get hurt and will make the Blizzard's community feel less diverse and inclusive .. facepalm ..

ekianjo 7y ago

Wow so many lines of PR fluff to basically say we have to make sure everyone obeys China's view of the world. blizzard, that post was completely useless unless you wanted to reinforce the impression you have no values other than big profits.

deleted 7y ago

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mirimir 7y ago

That piece is for sure loaded with weasel wording. But on the other hand, blitzchung might have said or done many things during his segment. And just about everyone who is upset about Blizzard booting blitzchung here would demand that they boot him for at least some of those. Say, if he had ranted about gender issues, for example. As always, perceptions depend on whose ox is getting gored.

aaron695 7y ago

What's people issue here? If he talked about the sanctity of marriage and how under a christian system gay people should not be allow to marry and how they will go to christian hell..... would we be as equally outraged they got fired over inserting free speech into a sporting tournament? Or is this about how we expect corporations to follow our morals? Which as a billion Westeners is mostly pro Hong Kong, which as a billion Chinese mostly pro China, on this issue. There's a good argument corporations should be apolitical and amoral on issues outside their domain, which in this direct case Blizzard is doing. I need evidence they allow the opposite, pro China speech, to be outraged here.

anm89 7y ago

If I had to translate this from corporate speak into the real world it would go something like "fuck off, we are following the money"

randallsquared 7y ago

> We now believe he should receive his prizing. We understand that for some this is not about the prize, and perhaps for others it is disrespectful to even discuss it. That is not our intention. It's a little weird that they say they "believe he should receive" his prize, rather than saying that he actually will. It's hard to think of a reason they would word it that way, except to give the false impression that he's getting the prize he won.

natch 7y ago
Wow yes that really is odd, thanks for pointing it out. Not proud to say it, but their statement fooled me (made me skim right past it thinking what they wanted me to think) the first time.

Gonzih 7y ago

I feel like this is Activision and not Blizzard talking.

lisp-missionary 7y ago
I feel like this is Joshua and not Josh talking.

chloerei 7y ago

I support Blizzard's decision, it kept the bottom line. I feel ridiculous, in order to support the riots in another country, some people were so passionate. I think this people are affected by anti-China sentiment. I write a post, tell everyone what happened in Hong Kong and try to persuade everyone not to make political opinions so easily, especially if a place is very far away from you. Stand with Hong Kong, but which side? https://chloerei.com/2019/10/11/stand-with-hong-kong-but-which-side/ https://chloerei.com/2019/10/11/stand-with-hong-kong-but-whi... The content may make you uncomfortable because it is different from the reporting position of some Western media. But looking at the problem from multiple angles will give you a more comprehensive understanding.

dang 7y ago
I agree with you that in the discussions of these issues on the Western internet sites, anti-China sentiment dominates and often blends with ignorance and prejudice. Unfortunately, if you post like you just did to HN, using inflammatory language like "I saw the hypocrisy of the Americans", you're guaranteed to take the thread further into nationalistic flamewar, and of course such language will be downvoted because it breaks HN's guidelines too (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). So if you're going to continue to post on HN, can you please make sure that your comments stay factual and neutral, and don't pour fuel on the fire? We ask the same of every user here.
- chloerei 7y ago
  Thanks for reply, I have edited the comments to more gentle.
deleted 7y ago
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14 7y ago

I have a question, what if he was to thank his mom while on a broadcast that would not be about the content of the game either will he be banned for that? Talk about foot in your mouth Blizzard now we can all count down to Blizzcon and watch the fireworks I am sure there will be.

deleted 7y ago

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jimueller 7y ago

Swing and a miss

mellosouls 7y ago

I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision

zwaps 7y ago
Yes, I too appreciate being lied to outright in a letter addressed to me Makes me feel really positive about Blizzard

bcrosby95 7y ago

The grammar in this post seems really awkward. It's almost like they cobbled together 3-4 different people's statements, didn't proof read it, then released it. Strange considering they waited so long.

squaresmile 7y ago

I feel like the original decision was so harsh and the optics of it was incredibly bad that this "meet in the middle" resolution still doesn't cut it. It's like when a post-mortem only contains: "In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly." and they don't elaborate more on the inadequacy or the hastiness. Maybe I just want blood but it feels pretty unsatisfying.

66434throwaway 7y ago

The publicity this is getting is amazing. I wonder if protesters supporting Catalonia, Cuba, Venezuela, Kashmir, Sudan, Indonesia, or Palestine did this, if it would get more attention than a single article or thread? Heck, 100 people have been killed in the current Iraq protests and there are less articles and outrage compared to this. Maybe future protests will focus on getting punishments from large companies? Perhaps this is the start of a new type of activism.

nmca 7y ago

This new language of mind-bending corporate doublespeak deserves more parody.

zwaps 7y ago

Digusting. If that had happened in the context of any other unimportant country, where no launch of a mobile game is planned, and which is not in a habit of crying and shouting down foreign press and companies, then Blizzard would have done nothing. In fact, the language used here, about openness and 'feeling welcome' (cf hurt feelings) comes close to the CCP phrasebook. CCP, to remind you, has publicly stated that opinions on China affairs from foreigners and utterings that make people feel unwelcome ot hurt feelings, are not free speech. HK people are fighting for their freedom and their lives. They need public support in the West to have a chance. Blizzard sanctioning them or others for this shows abundently clear on which side this company is!

icu 7y ago

It's a soft peddle statement drafted by the PR department hoping the mainstream media would pick it up. There are too many contradictions between: a) what was said in the statement, and Blizzard's statement made on Chinese social media at the time, and b) the lack of discipline on American tournament players who also protested. Furthermore a written statement is nothing compared to a video, where vocal intonation and body language communicates a lot. Bottom line, releasing this statement will only intensify criticism that Blizzard is "Lawfully Evil". The irony is that Blizzard's fanbase are 'heroes' who overcome evil in their games. Blizzard's actions are the very antithesis of their player bases' psychology. This isn't over, and with Blizzcon around the corner, I predict escalation and Blizzcon being a total PR disaster.

jerome-jh 7y ago

"Our goal is to help players connect in areas of commonality". If you only keep the intersection of all "cultures", you end up with a very small subset.

wcr3 7y ago

absolutely pathetic

blzrdnofreespch 7y ago

Some people think China wrote some or all of this response: https://mobile.twitter.com/SGBluebell/status/1182817588147052544 https://mobile.twitter.com/SGBluebell/status/118281758814705...

lisp-missionary 7y ago
I highly recommend anyone following this thread to take a look at those tweets and replies. I thought there was some awkward speech but didnt realize why. What are prizings? This definitely was not written by an English speaker which takes it from corporate BS to totally creepy.

hagreet 7y ago

TLDR: not an apology