13 ms·

no thanks. i'd much rather trust postgres to handle things like foreign keys, unique constraints, transactions, and other goodies than the application, which is

no thanks. i'd much rather trust postgres to handle things like foreign keys, unique constraints, transactions, and other goodies than the application, which is is what ends up happening when you try to do this in a key:value store.

axaxs 7y ago
precisely. I feel like I'm becoming a grumpy old man, because it seems to me, at face value, the onslaught of 'developers' have brought with them, generally, an aversion to tried and true things...or, everything other than the programming language they've learned. Few of the people I encounter know anything about SQL, much less more advanced features or design. Same with Linux systems. Why care, just throw it in a container and kill it if it acts up. It's a real shame, because I think if more folks took the time to understand things, in this case relational databases, they'd realize how absolutely powerful they are, and why this is a terrible idea.
- cjfd 7y ago
  Don't call yourself a grumpy old man. Call yourself a 'programmer who is capable of thinking more than one month ahead', which is shorter than the release of the 'MVP' anyway so you are saving everybody both time and a maintenance hellscape where very typo is a new variable name.
- delfinom 7y ago
  The real problem is there are valid reasons for solution X or Y, KV DBs exist for a valid reason and so do relation DBs. But then there the special people out there, they spend hours blogging about their personal opinion on how the giant grey blob KV DB can solve world hunger. Because it's all they know, they are afraid of change, they are afraid of ~ gasp ~, having to learn outside the box they dug themselves into, or they think they are these amazing super programmers that have the answer to everything. And then theres that write all this fluff for their resumes without actually knowing what they are doing but the senior engineer made them use it. Engineering sucks.
- Vesuvium 7y ago
  I feel this is more about IT departments lowering their bar to satisfy their staffing needs fueled by lowering the bar in the previous round. It's a vicious cycle and a well known one, even in other fields. Because many "engineers" do not have a solid understanding of the field, companies have been exploiting that by using and promoting solutions that would have been otherwise dismissed with very annoyed faces. Even docker would have been dismissed, as "cool but it has safety issues, so go home and redo your implementation".
  - farisjarrah 7y ago
    The docker comparison is apt. Red Hat did take home dockers work and did their homework with Podman, as a result, you basically get a complete docker compatible workflow, but now your containers don't have to run as root and you don't need a daemon constantly running on the system. The organization who really knows Linux inside and out made the better implementation.

axaxs 7y ago

precisely. I feel like I'm becoming a grumpy old man, because it seems to me, at face value, the onslaught of 'developers' have brought with them, generally, an aversion to tried and true things...or, everything other than the programming language they've learned. Few of the people I encounter know anything about SQL, much less more advanced features or design. Same with Linux systems. Why care, just throw it in a container and kill it if it acts up. It's a real shame, because I think if more folks took the time to understand things, in this case relational databases, they'd realize how absolutely powerful they are, and why this is a terrible idea.

cjfd 7y ago
Don't call yourself a grumpy old man. Call yourself a 'programmer who is capable of thinking more than one month ahead', which is shorter than the release of the 'MVP' anyway so you are saving everybody both time and a maintenance hellscape where very typo is a new variable name.
delfinom 7y ago
The real problem is there are valid reasons for solution X or Y, KV DBs exist for a valid reason and so do relation DBs. But then there the special people out there, they spend hours blogging about their personal opinion on how the giant grey blob KV DB can solve world hunger. Because it's all they know, they are afraid of change, they are afraid of ~ gasp ~, having to learn outside the box they dug themselves into, or they think they are these amazing super programmers that have the answer to everything. And then theres that write all this fluff for their resumes without actually knowing what they are doing but the senior engineer made them use it. Engineering sucks.
Vesuvium 7y ago
I feel this is more about IT departments lowering their bar to satisfy their staffing needs fueled by lowering the bar in the previous round. It's a vicious cycle and a well known one, even in other fields. Because many "engineers" do not have a solid understanding of the field, companies have been exploiting that by using and promoting solutions that would have been otherwise dismissed with very annoyed faces. Even docker would have been dismissed, as "cool but it has safety issues, so go home and redo your implementation".
- farisjarrah 7y ago
  The docker comparison is apt. Red Hat did take home dockers work and did their homework with Podman, as a result, you basically get a complete docker compatible workflow, but now your containers don't have to run as root and you don't need a daemon constantly running on the system. The organization who really knows Linux inside and out made the better implementation.