5 ms·

I unscientifically believe that we shouldn't use an alarm clock or any kind of trigger to wake up. My rational is: if your body has enough sleep, it'll wake up

by tanin 7y ago

I unscientifically believe that we shouldn't use an alarm clock or any kind of trigger to wake up. My rational is: if your body has enough sleep, it'll wake up on its own. On the flip side: it's actually very hard to sleep when your body doesn't need sleep. On another flip side: it's easy to stay awake even though your body needs sleep. With this, we should all sleep in a completely dark (blocked) room with no sound and etc. The "big unblocked east window in the bedroom" (unless the curtain blocks the light effectively) is a no for me. I've read "why we sleep", and I get this conflict where: 1. The author believes in the no-trigger-to-wake-up as well. 2. Somehow I also get the impression that the author also believes that we should use sunlight as a trigger for waking up. We'd feel fresher. But wouldn't that cut off our sleep?

quanticle 7y ago
The problem with that idea is that it completely misses the fact that most of us have to get up at a specific time in order to get to work or school or whatever else we have to do. I tried the no-trigger approach for a while, when I was between jobs and didn't have anything to do otherwise. What I found out is that my natural schedule, without manual intervention, has me going to bed at approximately 2am and waking up at around 10:30-11am. When I regained employment, it was a pretty rough transition to go back to waking up at 7am again. After going through that experience, I'd caution people about buying into the no-trigger method. Yes, your brain will naturally get you the amount of sleep that you need. However, there is no guarantee that your natural sleep cycle will mesh with the other obligations you have in your life.
- ACow_Adonis 7y ago
  Wild idea: maybe some people's sleep cycles are just inherently incompatible with society and the arbitrary schedules and obligations that a particular society and context has landed on. And I don't say that with any joy...
  - zeta0134 7y ago
    This is why I continue to seek out and work evening shifts. 3am-10:30am is just about exactly what my body wants to do naturally. Shifts that start at noon and get out after dark are perfect; once I got that synergy, I stopped feeling tired all the time. That said, sleep is a complicated, personal thing, and everyone's a little different. You should do what feels right to your body, because it might be very different from what works for my own.
  - yummypaint 7y ago
    Yeah i sometimes wonder about this in the context of our evolutionary history. Having some people around who naturally stay up late to tend the fire and keep a look out seems advantageous. I suppose teenagers can fill this role, but their numbers fluctuate.
- tanin 7y ago
  I understand your reasoning completely. One major assumption that your reasoning relies on is that: human can't adjust their sleep cycle at all. My unscientific assumption is that we can adjust our sleep cycle to be earlier. But it'll probably take time and effort to do so though. When I say sleep cycle, I mean: I usually go to bed at 2am, and I want to go to be at 9pm. Can I slowly adjust my body to achieve that? > After going through that experience, I'd caution people about buying into the no-trigger method. Yes, your brain will naturally get you the amount of sleep that you need. However, there is no guarantee that your natural sleep cycle will mesh with the other obligations you have in your life. It seems you agree that the no-trigger method is good if we only consider health. "why we sleep" convinces me that sleep deprivation (even a little) is bad. Essentially, it's a trade-off between damaging your health vs. obligations. This tradeoff is difficult to quantify, so it depends on how you perceive value in each. Another way that I think about is: the mistake is "going to bed late". You already made the mistake, but you still can choose the punishment. You can choose to damage your health OR you can choose to fail the obligation. Of course, a better way to avoid all this dilemma together is to go to bed early. I'd suggest the no-trigger method as the way of life and re-arrange your life to fit the no-trigger method.
sixstringtheory 7y ago
I share your beliefs. I once experimented with a completely rules-free schedule, under the belief that my circadian rhythm was slightly longer than an earth day, and thus my "day" would slowly shift forwards until my day was everyone's night, and then back again. It didn't feel good and I stopped it after one rotation. As far as the sun as a waking trigger, I believe that as well. With an alarm, it's nothing... nothing... nothing... and then BAM! Time to wake up! The sun rises gradually, and light is entering your eyes before you regain consciousness, so even though it seems like you suddenly wake due to the light, I think it's a more gradual process. That, and I fall back on a naturalistic idea that since that's how humans have woken since time immemorial, that our brains are wired for it in a way.
- tanin 7y ago
  Gradual light exposure is a good point. But I'd say light increases according to its own schedule... it doesn't take our need to sleep into consideration. Absorbing light after waking up is an activity that I agree with though. I actually have SAD lamp at home for this.
birdyrooster 7y ago
I have been following these rules for several years and I find that the hardest thing is convincing my coworkers not to hate me for rolling in at 10:30 or 11:00am everyday because I don't go to sleep until 2am or so. I really enjoy not getting that awful rush of stress hormones every workday morning and I feel like it helps me to stay more calm and relaxed. I feel healthier as a person so I think it is worth it overall for my employer.

by tanin 7y ago

quanticle 7y ago

The problem with that idea is that it completely misses the fact that most of us have to get up at a specific time in order to get to work or school or whatever else we have to do. I tried the no-trigger approach for a while, when I was between jobs and didn't have anything to do otherwise. What I found out is that my natural schedule, without manual intervention, has me going to bed at approximately 2am and waking up at around 10:30-11am. When I regained employment, it was a pretty rough transition to go back to waking up at 7am again. After going through that experience, I'd caution people about buying into the no-trigger method. Yes, your brain will naturally get you the amount of sleep that you need. However, there is no guarantee that your natural sleep cycle will mesh with the other obligations you have in your life.

ACow_Adonis 7y ago
Wild idea: maybe some people's sleep cycles are just inherently incompatible with society and the arbitrary schedules and obligations that a particular society and context has landed on. And I don't say that with any joy...
- zeta0134 7y ago
  This is why I continue to seek out and work evening shifts. 3am-10:30am is just about exactly what my body wants to do naturally. Shifts that start at noon and get out after dark are perfect; once I got that synergy, I stopped feeling tired all the time. That said, sleep is a complicated, personal thing, and everyone's a little different. You should do what feels right to your body, because it might be very different from what works for my own.
- yummypaint 7y ago
  Yeah i sometimes wonder about this in the context of our evolutionary history. Having some people around who naturally stay up late to tend the fire and keep a look out seems advantageous. I suppose teenagers can fill this role, but their numbers fluctuate.
tanin 7y ago
I understand your reasoning completely. One major assumption that your reasoning relies on is that: human can't adjust their sleep cycle at all. My unscientific assumption is that we can adjust our sleep cycle to be earlier. But it'll probably take time and effort to do so though. When I say sleep cycle, I mean: I usually go to bed at 2am, and I want to go to be at 9pm. Can I slowly adjust my body to achieve that? > After going through that experience, I'd caution people about buying into the no-trigger method. Yes, your brain will naturally get you the amount of sleep that you need. However, there is no guarantee that your natural sleep cycle will mesh with the other obligations you have in your life. It seems you agree that the no-trigger method is good if we only consider health. "why we sleep" convinces me that sleep deprivation (even a little) is bad. Essentially, it's a trade-off between damaging your health vs. obligations. This tradeoff is difficult to quantify, so it depends on how you perceive value in each. Another way that I think about is: the mistake is "going to bed late". You already made the mistake, but you still can choose the punishment. You can choose to damage your health OR you can choose to fail the obligation. Of course, a better way to avoid all this dilemma together is to go to bed early. I'd suggest the no-trigger method as the way of life and re-arrange your life to fit the no-trigger method.

sixstringtheory 7y ago

I share your beliefs. I once experimented with a completely rules-free schedule, under the belief that my circadian rhythm was slightly longer than an earth day, and thus my "day" would slowly shift forwards until my day was everyone's night, and then back again. It didn't feel good and I stopped it after one rotation. As far as the sun as a waking trigger, I believe that as well. With an alarm, it's nothing... nothing... nothing... and then BAM! Time to wake up! The sun rises gradually, and light is entering your eyes before you regain consciousness, so even though it seems like you suddenly wake due to the light, I think it's a more gradual process. That, and I fall back on a naturalistic idea that since that's how humans have woken since time immemorial, that our brains are wired for it in a way.

tanin 7y ago
Gradual light exposure is a good point. But I'd say light increases according to its own schedule... it doesn't take our need to sleep into consideration. Absorbing light after waking up is an activity that I agree with though. I actually have SAD lamp at home for this.

birdyrooster 7y ago

I have been following these rules for several years and I find that the hardest thing is convincing my coworkers not to hate me for rolling in at 10:30 or 11:00am everyday because I don't go to sleep until 2am or so. I really enjoy not getting that awful rush of stress hormones every workday morning and I feel like it helps me to stay more calm and relaxed. I feel healthier as a person so I think it is worth it overall for my employer.