3 ms·

> Having strong equality between man/women shouldn't be the only parameter when you are picking up your allies It does become a lot easier for them to qualify

> Having strong equality between man/women shouldn't be the only parameter when you are picking up your allies It does become a lot easier for them to qualify as allies if they share core western values

m00dy 7y ago
Oh really ? How about political view of PKK/YPG ? Do you think they embrace western values as well ? They are Marxist–Leninist Communist.
- NoGravitas 7y ago
  Not exactly. I'm not going to go too much into the distinction between the PKK and the YPG, but they are not the same organization. The correction I want to make is to note that the official ideology of the YPG is [Democratic Confederalism][0]. It is a form of libertarian socialism, strongly influenced by the ideas of Murray Bookchin. A brief quote from the Wikipedia article: Democratic confederalism is a "system of popularly elected administrative councils, allowing local communities to exercise autonomous control over their assets, while linking to other communities via a network of confederal councils." Decisions are made by communes in each neighborhood, village, or city. All are welcome to partake in the communal councils, but political participation is not mandated. There is no private property, but rather “ownership by use, which grants individuals usage rights to the buildings, land, and infrastructure, but not the right to sell and buy on the market or convert them private enterprises.” The economy is in the hands of the communal councils, and is thus (in the words of Bookchin) ‘neither collectivised nor privatised, it is common.’ Feminism, ecology and direct democracy are essential in democratic confederalism. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_%C3%96calan#Democratic_confederalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_%C3%96calan#Democrati...
  - m00dy 7y ago
    "There is no private property, " looks like very American to me.
    - NoGravitas 7y ago
      As I went walking I saw a sign there, And on the sign it said "No Trespassing." But on the other side it didn't say nothing. That side was made for you and me. In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people, By the relief office I seen my people; As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking Is this land made for you and me? Nobody living can ever stop me, As I go walking that freedom highway; Nobody living can ever make me turn back This land was made for you and me. -- Woody Guthrie
- sohex 7y ago
  No, they aren't. They're fundamentally democratic confederalists, which is a leftist tendency, but distinctly different from Marxist-Leninism. There are some Marxist-Leninists among the PKK and YPG, but that's not the core ideology of either group. Furthermore the PKK and the YPG are not synonymous groups and viewing them as such is not an accepted position anywhere that isn't inundated with Turkish propaganda.
- dfasdfasd 7y ago
  I would much rather have a society of equitable Marxist-Leninists (which they are not) than authoritarian far-right Turkey. At least their values would be in line with mine, regardless of their political ideology. It's pathetic that you're using this red-scare nonsense to justify a borderline genocide.
mcsofake 7y ago
Archbishop Hindo: violence and intimidation of the Kurd militias on Christians increase in Hassaké: http://www.fides.org/en/news/60791-ASIA_SYRIA_Archbishop_Hindo_violence_and_intimidation_of_the_Kurd_militias_on_Christians_increase_in_Hassake http://www.fides.org/en/news/60791-ASIA_SYRIA_Archbishop_Hin... Kurdish YPG/Asayish Forces Once Again Kidnap Christians in Northeast Syria: https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/607-kurds_forced_conscription_kidnapping_again https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/607-kurds_forced... Kurdish YPG Unlawfully Closes Aramean and Armenian Schools: https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/613-ypg_illegal-closure-aramean-armenian-schools_syria https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/613-ypg_illegal-... Video Shows Christian Property in Syria Seized by Kurdish Forces: https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/591-video-shows-christian-property-in-syria-confiscated-by-kurdish-forces https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/591-video-shows-... Very strong Western values, indeed.
- mcsofake 7y ago
  Additionally, a report from Amnesty International: Syria: US ally’s razing of villages amounts to war crimes: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-of-villages-amounts-to-war-crimes/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-ally...
p4bl0 7y ago
I don't know if we can call this "sharing core western values" without diminishing what it really is. From what I've read and what I've been told by people who lived there for a few months, I believe man/woman equality is much more important in Rojava than it is in Europe or in the US. Maybe not in principle but clearly in practice.

m00dy 7y ago

Oh really ? How about political view of PKK/YPG ? Do you think they embrace western values as well ? They are Marxist–Leninist Communist.

NoGravitas 7y ago
Not exactly. I'm not going to go too much into the distinction between the PKK and the YPG, but they are not the same organization. The correction I want to make is to note that the official ideology of the YPG is [Democratic Confederalism][0]. It is a form of libertarian socialism, strongly influenced by the ideas of Murray Bookchin. A brief quote from the Wikipedia article: Democratic confederalism is a "system of popularly elected administrative councils, allowing local communities to exercise autonomous control over their assets, while linking to other communities via a network of confederal councils." Decisions are made by communes in each neighborhood, village, or city. All are welcome to partake in the communal councils, but political participation is not mandated. There is no private property, but rather “ownership by use, which grants individuals usage rights to the buildings, land, and infrastructure, but not the right to sell and buy on the market or convert them private enterprises.” The economy is in the hands of the communal councils, and is thus (in the words of Bookchin) ‘neither collectivised nor privatised, it is common.’ Feminism, ecology and direct democracy are essential in democratic confederalism. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_%C3%96calan#Democratic_confederalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_%C3%96calan#Democrati...
- m00dy 7y ago
  "There is no private property, " looks like very American to me.
  - NoGravitas 7y ago
    As I went walking I saw a sign there, And on the sign it said "No Trespassing." But on the other side it didn't say nothing. That side was made for you and me. In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people, By the relief office I seen my people; As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking Is this land made for you and me? Nobody living can ever stop me, As I go walking that freedom highway; Nobody living can ever make me turn back This land was made for you and me. -- Woody Guthrie
sohex 7y ago
No, they aren't. They're fundamentally democratic confederalists, which is a leftist tendency, but distinctly different from Marxist-Leninism. There are some Marxist-Leninists among the PKK and YPG, but that's not the core ideology of either group. Furthermore the PKK and the YPG are not synonymous groups and viewing them as such is not an accepted position anywhere that isn't inundated with Turkish propaganda.
dfasdfasd 7y ago
I would much rather have a society of equitable Marxist-Leninists (which they are not) than authoritarian far-right Turkey. At least their values would be in line with mine, regardless of their political ideology. It's pathetic that you're using this red-scare nonsense to justify a borderline genocide.

mcsofake 7y ago

Archbishop Hindo: violence and intimidation of the Kurd militias on Christians increase in Hassaké: http://www.fides.org/en/news/60791-ASIA_SYRIA_Archbishop_Hindo_violence_and_intimidation_of_the_Kurd_militias_on_Christians_increase_in_Hassake http://www.fides.org/en/news/60791-ASIA_SYRIA_Archbishop_Hin... Kurdish YPG/Asayish Forces Once Again Kidnap Christians in Northeast Syria: https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/607-kurds_forced_conscription_kidnapping_again https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/607-kurds_forced... Kurdish YPG Unlawfully Closes Aramean and Armenian Schools: https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/613-ypg_illegal-closure-aramean-armenian-schools_syria https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/613-ypg_illegal-... Video Shows Christian Property in Syria Seized by Kurdish Forces: https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/591-video-shows-christian-property-in-syria-confiscated-by-kurdish-forces https://wca-ngo.org/wca-news/press-releases/591-video-shows-... Very strong Western values, indeed.

mcsofake 7y ago
Additionally, a report from Amnesty International: Syria: US ally’s razing of villages amounts to war crimes: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-of-villages-amounts-to-war-crimes/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-ally...

p4bl0 7y ago

I don't know if we can call this "sharing core western values" without diminishing what it really is. From what I've read and what I've been told by people who lived there for a few months, I believe man/woman equality is much more important in Rojava than it is in Europe or in the US. Maybe not in principle but clearly in practice.