7 ms·

I mean, it's next to a war zone, with tons of military hardware moving about, preparing to enter fighting. It sounds like pretty reasonable counter-intelligence

I mean, it's next to a war zone, with tons of military hardware moving about, preparing to enter fighting. It sounds like pretty reasonable counter-intelligence (not to mention counter-propaganda) move.

y-c-o-m-b 7y ago
They did the same thing in 2017 during the anti-corruption protests in Turkey. This is just a means to prevent atrocities on behalf of Erdogan's government and the military from leaking out into the public sphere. EDIT: 2014 also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26677134 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26677134 > This comes after PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowed to "wipe out Twitter" following damaging allegations of corruption in his inner circle.
throwyaway 7y ago
Right now in Turkey criticizing the operation is considered "terrorist propaganda" (120+ persons already detained), as is reporting that there are victim among Syrian civilians (a few independent journalist already detained and released) any website/tv reporting negatively is being closed by the state TV watchdog. So it is not only about counter-intelligence.
- 99052882514569 7y ago
  I'm not commenting on the war, the sides taking part in it, etc. I'm merely saying that muting social media in the vicinity of troop movement is a logical move by any government engaged in a war.
driverdan 7y ago
Blocking sites like this is never reasonable.
- 99052882514569 7y ago
  I disagree. Keeping your opponent in the 'fog of war' is a legitimate, reasonable military aim. In the olden days, radio/TV transmissions and newspaper publication was severely restricted during military operations. Today, those are largely irrelevant as news is spread on social media, so this block is the modern-era equivalent. Note how my argument does not depend on whether we're talking about a good war, bad war, just war, evil war, etc.
  - thelittleone 7y ago
    That seems like a convenient justification and minor strategic benefit rather than the real issue. This is about PR / image management and controlling the narrative. An outraged domestic and international community can limit your options (look at Hong Kong).
    - JetSpiegel 7y ago
      Erdogan got a green light from Trump, who publicly accused the Kurds of not helping with Normandy landings and taking the USA's money (he never mentioned ISIS). The American government supports you, who needs PR?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Blocking sites like this is never reasonable Turkey has a long history of blocking web sites, even in peacetime. The last time I went there, I was surprised how many web sites I couldn't access.
  - BostonEnginerd 7y ago
    I recently transited through Istanbul and noticed two things: 1) You can't get an internet connection at the airport without giving up PII - either your ticket info, or your cellphone information. 2) They block Wikipedia in the airport and on the in-flight WiFi on Turkish Airlines.
    - PrussianSteel 7y ago
      It’s a nationwide thing, not just a Turkish Airlines/airport block. I think Wikipedia’s been blocked for several years now.
      - lostlogin 7y ago
        It has. Here is the Wikipedia entry on the block. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_of_Wikipedia_in_Turkey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_of_Wikipedia_in_Turkey
tdb7893 7y ago
At first I was thinking that intelligence operations probably have better ways to gather and exfiltrate date but I guess now that their allies have abandoned them they might not actually have better ways to get or share info. This is one of the reasons I can't wait until there are more satellite providers. It's hopefully much harder for a country to block a bunch of satellites in LEO than terrestrial lines.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  It's not about stopping the military, it's about stopping regular people from communicating. Don't want you posting troop positions, pictures of dead people, etc.

y-c-o-m-b 7y ago

They did the same thing in 2017 during the anti-corruption protests in Turkey. This is just a means to prevent atrocities on behalf of Erdogan's government and the military from leaking out into the public sphere. EDIT: 2014 also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26677134 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26677134 > This comes after PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowed to "wipe out Twitter" following damaging allegations of corruption in his inner circle.

throwyaway 7y ago

Right now in Turkey criticizing the operation is considered "terrorist propaganda" (120+ persons already detained), as is reporting that there are victim among Syrian civilians (a few independent journalist already detained and released) any website/tv reporting negatively is being closed by the state TV watchdog. So it is not only about counter-intelligence.

99052882514569 7y ago
I'm not commenting on the war, the sides taking part in it, etc. I'm merely saying that muting social media in the vicinity of troop movement is a logical move by any government engaged in a war.

driverdan 7y ago

Blocking sites like this is never reasonable.

99052882514569 7y ago
I disagree. Keeping your opponent in the 'fog of war' is a legitimate, reasonable military aim. In the olden days, radio/TV transmissions and newspaper publication was severely restricted during military operations. Today, those are largely irrelevant as news is spread on social media, so this block is the modern-era equivalent. Note how my argument does not depend on whether we're talking about a good war, bad war, just war, evil war, etc.
- thelittleone 7y ago
  That seems like a convenient justification and minor strategic benefit rather than the real issue. This is about PR / image management and controlling the narrative. An outraged domestic and international community can limit your options (look at Hong Kong).
  - JetSpiegel 7y ago
    Erdogan got a green light from Trump, who publicly accused the Kurds of not helping with Normandy landings and taking the USA's money (he never mentioned ISIS). The American government supports you, who needs PR?
reaperducer 7y ago
Blocking sites like this is never reasonable Turkey has a long history of blocking web sites, even in peacetime. The last time I went there, I was surprised how many web sites I couldn't access.
- BostonEnginerd 7y ago
  I recently transited through Istanbul and noticed two things: 1) You can't get an internet connection at the airport without giving up PII - either your ticket info, or your cellphone information. 2) They block Wikipedia in the airport and on the in-flight WiFi on Turkish Airlines.
  - PrussianSteel 7y ago
    It’s a nationwide thing, not just a Turkish Airlines/airport block. I think Wikipedia’s been blocked for several years now.
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      It has. Here is the Wikipedia entry on the block. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_of_Wikipedia_in_Turkey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_of_Wikipedia_in_Turkey

tdb7893 7y ago

At first I was thinking that intelligence operations probably have better ways to gather and exfiltrate date but I guess now that their allies have abandoned them they might not actually have better ways to get or share info. This is one of the reasons I can't wait until there are more satellite providers. It's hopefully much harder for a country to block a bunch of satellites in LEO than terrestrial lines.

Consultant32452 7y ago
It's not about stopping the military, it's about stopping regular people from communicating. Don't want you posting troop positions, pictures of dead people, etc.