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"Kids these days" can't afford to drive. And I see just as many adults continuously glued to their phones as kids.

non-entity 7y ago
A bit of an outlier situation, but my parents never taught me to drive. Now the problem is not that I dont want to, but theres just no way to learn once you become an adult it seems. Driving school are optimized for teens and not compatible with a full time schedule.
- ghaff 7y ago
  I'm not sure how much you would even learn as an adult taking a typical US driving school. What you probably really need is a patient adult with a driver's license who will ride around with you. There are higher-end driving schools for adults. But most of them are going to assume you already know how to basically drive and they'll be even less compatible with a full-time schedule. (i.e. you'd need to take some vacation time)
  - rthfdhfd 7y ago
    "What you probably really need is a patient adult with a driver's license who will ride around with you." Agreed. But adults are more patient if you already have 10 hours of steering and finding the break pedal on someone else's car.
    - kurthr 7y ago
      Yes, a lot of driving is knowing when to be scared (other than all the time). When you’re in the car with someone just starting it’s terrifying for both parties. Then as the learner, it’s easy to become complacent and think, ‘if I just do the right/legal thing, I’m alright’, but it’s not true because lots of other people break the rules (some situations break the rules!) and you need to coexist without blocking traffic. Lots of things will make an experienced driver nervous not because they’re wrong, but because other people won’t expect it. For the more advanced (and safe) driving, it’s all about predicting other drivers by recognizing their type and knowing how they will respond. That’s really hard and new/foreign drivers are the most difficult. It’s also what makes driving in other places so hard and occasionally dangerous for experienced drivers... LA is not NY is not Boston is not Berlin is not Naples is not Greece is not Shanghai is not Seoul is not Beijing is not Delhi (I think many people who’ve driven/riden a lot in these places will instantly feel how it is to drive each of these cities). You have to drive differently in each place so that other drivers (even the ones who are just learning) know what you’re going to do... be predictable and like the other traffic (even if it breaks rules, goes too fast, and gets too close together. I've never driven in Africa or Eastern Europe, but as a passenger it’s terrifying. Other places like Shanghai seem to break the rules in more polite ways that I’m more comfortable with. To give an example many people will recognize, if you leave ‘too much room’ or drive ‘too slowly’ on a LA freeway other drivers will cut you off in incredibly dangerous ways... you have to ‘move with the flow of traffic’ which often means 15mph over the speed limit with less than a 2 car length gap to the vehicle ahead.
  - potta_coffee 7y ago
    This is true. My parents didn't teach me to drive either. My girlfriend's mom felt sorry for me and spend a lot of time teaching me. Then, after driving for a year, a good buddy of mine taught me to drive stick shift.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      A long-ago girlfriend taught me how to drive a stick when I bought a second vehicle that had one. I knew how to drive a stick and my parents had had manual shift cars that I had practiced on a bit but you really need to develop the right feel for the clutch and throttle. I remember for about the first month making a real point of avoiding routes and times that would expose me to a lot of stop and go traffic, especially on inclines. I can't imagine what initially learning to drive a stickshift somewhere like SF must have been like!
      - potta_coffee 7y ago
        My friend taught me well. He took me to a cul-de-sac in our neighborhood that went up a steep hill, and I practiced "feathering" the clutch for 30 minutes. After that, the rest was easy.
        ghaff 7y ago
        I think a lot of it was psychological for me :-) I could do it but the idea of having to do it with a car's bumper 6 inches behind me made it more difficult.
  - non-entity 7y ago
    > What you probably really need is a patient adult with a driver's license Which is the issue, as I have no friends or family nearby, nor anyone I'm close enough with to ask such a favor of.
- arandr0x 7y ago
  I am currently an adult going to a driving school whose parents don't drive and who lives in a urban center with no parking, AMA. I also have a full-time job. It is the first time in my life (since I started working FT at 16) that I have been able to do this though.
- rthfdhfd 7y ago
  My recently immigrated 57 year old mother in law who speaks almost no English learned to drive last year. You can too. First study the driving manual carefully. Most of the knowledge that you need is on there. I'm astonished how poorly non-drivers know the laws of the road (they're largely applicable to them too!). Also the booklet has a lot of techniques relevant to driving (two second separation, add a second for every risk fact, ect). Now start driving. Get a friend to help you if you have one. Start [0] small, slow, empty, local residential streets and alleyways. Work your way up to more complicated situations. That's how I learned to ride a motorcycle at age 32 with just the two day MSC course. [0] Actually the first step is to "drive" with the car turned off. Pretend your driving and then.. BAM! Danger on the road! Can your foot find the breaks? Did they trip instead? Use a timer set to 40s.
- rchaud 7y ago
  You can usually hire a driving school instructor (or ex-instructor) for an hourly fee. About 10 years ago, I spent ~$500 for 12 hours with an instructor, which was money well spent since the in-class course alone was $350 and all we did was watch safety videos for 2 weeks and write a quiz.
- umeshunni 7y ago
  I learned to drive at ~24. I think I did 10-12 hours of lessons before I took a test. The driving instructor was cool with showing up at 7am or some time like that and doing an hour of lessons before I had to leave for work. They were also relieved to be teaching an adult (relatively speaking).
kurthr 7y ago
Exactly my point, I wasn't refering just to kids (even the 16-27 year old kind). I meant all of us who now consume hours of media on our phones. Otherwise, I wouldn't have underscored the _get off my lawn_ aspect of the comment. Clearly, the majority of working stiffs with these issues are not millenial. Furthermore, yes "these kids" can afford to drive, but would rather someone else do it for them, because the independence of driving is no longer of such high social importance while posting on social media is.

A bit of an outlier situation, but my parents never taught me to drive. Now the problem is not that I dont want to, but theres just no way to learn once you become an adult it seems. Driving school are optimized for teens and not compatible with a full time schedule.

ghaff 7y ago
I'm not sure how much you would even learn as an adult taking a typical US driving school. What you probably really need is a patient adult with a driver's license who will ride around with you. There are higher-end driving schools for adults. But most of them are going to assume you already know how to basically drive and they'll be even less compatible with a full-time schedule. (i.e. you'd need to take some vacation time)
- rthfdhfd 7y ago
  "What you probably really need is a patient adult with a driver's license who will ride around with you." Agreed. But adults are more patient if you already have 10 hours of steering and finding the break pedal on someone else's car.
  - kurthr 7y ago
    Yes, a lot of driving is knowing when to be scared (other than all the time). When you’re in the car with someone just starting it’s terrifying for both parties. Then as the learner, it’s easy to become complacent and think, ‘if I just do the right/legal thing, I’m alright’, but it’s not true because lots of other people break the rules (some situations break the rules!) and you need to coexist without blocking traffic. Lots of things will make an experienced driver nervous not because they’re wrong, but because other people won’t expect it. For the more advanced (and safe) driving, it’s all about predicting other drivers by recognizing their type and knowing how they will respond. That’s really hard and new/foreign drivers are the most difficult. It’s also what makes driving in other places so hard and occasionally dangerous for experienced drivers... LA is not NY is not Boston is not Berlin is not Naples is not Greece is not Shanghai is not Seoul is not Beijing is not Delhi (I think many people who’ve driven/riden a lot in these places will instantly feel how it is to drive each of these cities). You have to drive differently in each place so that other drivers (even the ones who are just learning) know what you’re going to do... be predictable and like the other traffic (even if it breaks rules, goes too fast, and gets too close together. I've never driven in Africa or Eastern Europe, but as a passenger it’s terrifying. Other places like Shanghai seem to break the rules in more polite ways that I’m more comfortable with. To give an example many people will recognize, if you leave ‘too much room’ or drive ‘too slowly’ on a LA freeway other drivers will cut you off in incredibly dangerous ways... you have to ‘move with the flow of traffic’ which often means 15mph over the speed limit with less than a 2 car length gap to the vehicle ahead.
- potta_coffee 7y ago
  This is true. My parents didn't teach me to drive either. My girlfriend's mom felt sorry for me and spend a lot of time teaching me. Then, after driving for a year, a good buddy of mine taught me to drive stick shift.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    A long-ago girlfriend taught me how to drive a stick when I bought a second vehicle that had one. I knew how to drive a stick and my parents had had manual shift cars that I had practiced on a bit but you really need to develop the right feel for the clutch and throttle. I remember for about the first month making a real point of avoiding routes and times that would expose me to a lot of stop and go traffic, especially on inclines. I can't imagine what initially learning to drive a stickshift somewhere like SF must have been like!
    - potta_coffee 7y ago
      My friend taught me well. He took me to a cul-de-sac in our neighborhood that went up a steep hill, and I practiced "feathering" the clutch for 30 minutes. After that, the rest was easy.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        I think a lot of it was psychological for me :-) I could do it but the idea of having to do it with a car's bumper 6 inches behind me made it more difficult.
- non-entity 7y ago
  > What you probably really need is a patient adult with a driver's license Which is the issue, as I have no friends or family nearby, nor anyone I'm close enough with to ask such a favor of.
arandr0x 7y ago
I am currently an adult going to a driving school whose parents don't drive and who lives in a urban center with no parking, AMA. I also have a full-time job. It is the first time in my life (since I started working FT at 16) that I have been able to do this though.
rthfdhfd 7y ago
My recently immigrated 57 year old mother in law who speaks almost no English learned to drive last year. You can too. First study the driving manual carefully. Most of the knowledge that you need is on there. I'm astonished how poorly non-drivers know the laws of the road (they're largely applicable to them too!). Also the booklet has a lot of techniques relevant to driving (two second separation, add a second for every risk fact, ect). Now start driving. Get a friend to help you if you have one. Start [0] small, slow, empty, local residential streets and alleyways. Work your way up to more complicated situations. That's how I learned to ride a motorcycle at age 32 with just the two day MSC course. [0] Actually the first step is to "drive" with the car turned off. Pretend your driving and then.. BAM! Danger on the road! Can your foot find the breaks? Did they trip instead? Use a timer set to 40s.
rchaud 7y ago
You can usually hire a driving school instructor (or ex-instructor) for an hourly fee. About 10 years ago, I spent ~$500 for 12 hours with an instructor, which was money well spent since the in-class course alone was $350 and all we did was watch safety videos for 2 weeks and write a quiz.
umeshunni 7y ago
I learned to drive at ~24. I think I did 10-12 hours of lessons before I took a test. The driving instructor was cool with showing up at 7am or some time like that and doing an hour of lessons before I had to leave for work. They were also relieved to be teaching an adult (relatively speaking).

kurthr 7y ago

Exactly my point, I wasn't refering just to kids (even the 16-27 year old kind). I meant all of us who now consume hours of media on our phones. Otherwise, I wouldn't have underscored the _get off my lawn_ aspect of the comment. Clearly, the majority of working stiffs with these issues are not millenial. Furthermore, yes "these kids" can afford to drive, but would rather someone else do it for them, because the independence of driving is no longer of such high social importance while posting on social media is.