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> Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram Restricted in Southern Turkey It's kind of incredible how that head line are so terrifying. The only explanation fo
by dopamean 7y ago
> Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram Restricted in Southern Turkey
It's kind of incredible how that head line are so terrifying. The only explanation for this is that people don't want information getting out of that area. It's so fucked up.
Maybe this is a bit naive to say but I really hate that this is just how things are. We all know what's going to happen and there's nothing that can be done about it. It doesn't really seem like it'll ever change either.
- aerodog 7y agoWe do? I don't know. I find we rarely know what's going to happen. In 2016 everyone had for weeks talked about how Aleppo was going to go up in flames. And in the end, it turned out to be an actual operation to rid the place of rebels and then they established order when the city fell. Maybe in these towns the same will happen. But it's hard to say "we all know what's going to happen."
- sp332 7y agoThis Aleppo? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH6xRh6K7-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH6xRh6K7-4 (And yes the video is from RT but if you can find a more reputable source debunking it I'd like to see it.)
- plehoux 7y agoWouldn't Starlink by Space X solve this? Authoritarian govs. would make it illegal to subscribe... but like VPNs it would be very hard to police, even harder.
- zzzcpan 7y agoStarlink is more vulnerable to governments than VPNs and is going to be much much more expensive.
- yes_man 7y agoBig social media companies could offer an API that offers a list of IPs that serve the app and any data it needs from an unblocked source. Then if you're under oppression by a malevolent leadership that blocks a social media, it could be so that you only need to hook your Twitter or Facebook app to internet via Starlink for the millisecond it takes to fetch the unblocked IPs, and the app would be configured to automatically use those in blocked countries. Those new IPs got blocked? Just hit the API again with Starlink and get back to using normal internet. It could be default behavior for the apps in countries where they are blocked to do that if a Starlink connection is up. If a couple of bytes of information every now and then is too expensive to fetch with Starlink in poorer countries, it is too expensive to use for normal internet use for normal people anywhere on the planet. Since you are using normal internet except for fetching the IPs, you are not subject to government snooping or sabotage any more than you would be normally. It also would require normal people at maximum the same level of tech-savvyness as a VPN to just connect to Starlink for a second. Another key difference would be that a VPN requires you to reach the VPN server somehow, and the country can arbitrarily block cable traffic if they have the resources and will. Whether it's technically feasible for most VPNs is another question. But anyway, for Starlink... You would really need to wreck their satellite off the orbit or mess with their radiosignals to block it. Not that social media companies would do anything to piss off authoritarian leaders / oppressing governments. But they could if they thought it's right
- therein 7y agoCensorship resistant DNS over Starlink could be pretty useful and cost effective.
- untreasure 7y agoYou need to have the ground receiver and those seem relatively easy to restrict.
- bilbo0s 7y agoThis. People talk about Starlink like they never heard of RF engineering or something? I mean really, what does Starlink change when the entity doing the blocking is a state level actor?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- anticensor 7y agoHackable SDRs and small planar antennae are very cheap.
- inimino 7y ago"Must be willing to own a device that can get you disappeared" is not a realistic solution to state-level censorship, despite cypherpunk dreams to the contrary.
- remcob 7y agoFor bidirectional communications you need to transmit, and this means you send out a signal that can be easily triangulated.
- debt 7y agoThe only way is mesh. It’s the only way to permanently stop it.
- everlastingfan 7y agoSneakernet mesh. RF can be triangulated and blocked.
- phy6 7y agoVoice Over Vocal Chords as a new NFC RFC. But seriously, your comment makes me want to find an article on how the Chinese have been thwarting bluetooth mesh chat in HK protests.
- debt 7y agoSneakernet is the most future-proof solution. It's impossible to stop by design. It can be discouraged with arrest, but not stopped completely.
- Faark 7y agoI know the fan community likes to make this argument, but SpaceX will most likely cooperate with major governments. Fighting oppressive regimes is not something I remember Must doing, yet. And he has no problem setting up shop e.g. in China.
- MFLoon 7y agoHe hasn't really had reason to, none of his businesses thus far have involved media, telecom or social media. Not saying it's particularly likely that he would go against the grain, but its a bit unfair to say he hasn't when he hasn't had occasion to yet.
- journalctl 7y ago“Hey, Turkish ISPs? This is the government. We’re gonna need you to black hole some BGP routes or else. Thanks.”
- rad_gruchalski 7y agoI’m sure this would be happening in any country. Even USA. I’m not defending Turkey here though.
- journalctl 7y agoI just meant that unless customers were talking to satellites directly, presumably there would still be a Turkish ISP in the middle that would be able to route Facebook et al into the æther. But maybe I’m misunderstanding how Starlink works.
- ericd 7y agoI think the current plan is for them to talk to the satellites directly? One of the reasons they're trying to get the costs of the antennas down to ~$300.
- themagician 7y agoWe don't need Starlink or SpaceX or VPNs. Radio is difficult if not impossible to block with clever operators. The system is known. Satellite will always be subject to whoever is in power at the time and it won't work within a building. If you want to get information in and out the best option is—and possible always will be–a network of skilled radio operators.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- TeMPOraL 7y agoAn unfortunate side effect of the way HAM licenses are handled worldwide is that each government has a handy list of almost every citizen with enough knowledge and experience to build, service and use radio stations - complete with addresses and a partial inventory of equipment in circulation. It makes confiscating radio equipment and detaining operators much, much easier.
- thelittleone 7y agoIf by saying "each government" you mean globally, that's just wrong. It's certainly not the case in many developing countries (e.g., Indonesia).
- TeMPOraL 7y agoI mean locally, each government keeping track of its own citizens with HAM licenses.
- themagician 7y agoDon’t need to be licensed. That’s optional. The knowledge is free and available to all and not that difficult. Amateur, citizens, and even AM/FM are cheap and easy to operate. We are talking about how people get a message out in a martial law / wartime scenario. Radio is your best bet because no one can really stop you the way they can block and DNS server or just outright tell the ISP to shutdown.
- mensetmanusman 7y agoNo, ground based lasers can deactivate. Nation states have these. The only thing we can do is strengthen non-authoritarian governments. Unfortunately, western business leaders made the mistake of strengthening authoritarian countries for a profit. We have a dark two to three hundred years ahead of us.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- 99052882514569 7y agoI mean, it's next to a war zone, with tons of military hardware moving about, preparing to enter fighting. It sounds like pretty reasonable counter-intelligence (not to mention counter-propaganda) move.
- y-c-o-m-b 7y agoThey did the same thing in 2017 during the anti-corruption protests in Turkey. This is just a means to prevent atrocities on behalf of Erdogan's government and the military from leaking out into the public sphere. EDIT: 2014 also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26677134 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26677134 > This comes after PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowed to "wipe out Twitter" following damaging allegations of corruption in his inner circle.
- throwyaway 7y agoRight now in Turkey criticizing the operation is considered "terrorist propaganda" (120+ persons already detained), as is reporting that there are victim among Syrian civilians (a few independent journalist already detained and released) any website/tv reporting negatively is being closed by the state TV watchdog. So it is not only about counter-intelligence.
- 99052882514569 7y agoI'm not commenting on the war, the sides taking part in it, etc. I'm merely saying that muting social media in the vicinity of troop movement is a logical move by any government engaged in a war.
- driverdan 7y agoBlocking sites like this is never reasonable.
- 99052882514569 7y agoI disagree. Keeping your opponent in the 'fog of war' is a legitimate, reasonable military aim. In the olden days, radio/TV transmissions and newspaper publication was severely restricted during military operations. Today, those are largely irrelevant as news is spread on social media, so this block is the modern-era equivalent. Note how my argument does not depend on whether we're talking about a good war, bad war, just war, evil war, etc.
- thelittleone 7y agoIt's disturbing that it's happening so often it's becoming a norm. I guess it's fair then for people to assume the worst. That the government is committing acts so heinous they can't allow them to be discussed.
- themagician 7y agoSee, I don't mind it. Twitter and Facebook are HORRIBLE tools to rely on. They spread more wrong information than right information. If free speech is going to survive it will require open systems and responsible journalism. Twitter and Facebook are tools that promote neither. Bad information, I suppose, is better than no information… but damn have we regressed in a lot of ways.
- JetSpiegel 7y agoThis ban is not to keep the Kurds from receiving information, they know they are getting bombed when their houses blow up. It's to keep information out. To exfiltrate information, all the Social Media anti features are a plus.
- m-p-3 7y agoI hope some federated system like Mastodon picks up in popularity, it would make it harder to blacklist all instances and effectively blackhole the entire platform.
- qwerty456127 7y agoIf they didn't want information getting out of that area perhaps they would block better. It seems they just want to block ordinary non-techie users from communicating this way.