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> then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying ... Is that a good thing?

by hvis 7y ago

lultimouomo 7y ago
I mean, Google doesn't even pretend to be open to community contributions. Pretty much every choice they make is tailored to googlers only, just look at their build systems. They're upfront about it which I think prevents me from complaining about how hard is to contribute. I'll take Mozilla over Google every day, but if Mozilla presents itself as open to community, it also lends itself to criticism that Google avoids altogether.
- hvis 7y ago
  It's actually documented that Firefox does have outside contributors, even people writing code: https://blog.mozilla.org/community/2019/04/30/firefox-67-new-contributors/ https://blog.mozilla.org/community/2019/04/30/firefox-67-new... So yes, that happens, and if that's not as easy as we could have hoped, probably help is welcome with that as well. Big and complex projects generally have higher standard of effort necessary to get the leg in. The comparison to Chrome was that it's a project comparable in complexity, and yet Firefox is easier and faster to build.
robocat 7y ago
Yes. I've submitted many browser bug reports to Google, Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla over many years. I only bother to submit issues for "important" bugs, I write clearly, I simplify, and I spend significant time ensuring that the bug report is useful to developers and relevant for users. Google respects my efforts, and often fixes my reported issues, or at least explains why it can't be fixed (usually with well reasoned answers, usually the actual developer is communicating with me). Microsoft/Apple/Mozilla waste my time, ignore my efforts, and generally that results in a poorer user experience in the browser. The Chrome team is one of the most amazing software teams I have ever been tangentially involved with - and the product quality shines.
- hvis 7y ago
  Thank you for outlining this. Maybe someone from Mozilla's community outreach can comment and ultimately make some improvements. Specific examples of said bug reports would probably help, though.
  - robocat 7y ago
    I suggest Mozilla look at the last 6 months of bugs submitted and do some analysis on them. Ideally take a subsample and talk to the submitters, and see what they think. If Mozilla agree that Google do a better job than Mozilla, then benchmark against them. I eventually stopped reporting bugs to Mozilla, Microsoft and Apple unless I absolutely had to. I recently stopped working with browsers, so I no longer have much appetite for helping.

> then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying ... Is that a good thing?

by hvis 7y ago

> then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying ... Is that a good thing?

I mean, Google doesn't even pretend to be open to community contributions. Pretty much every choice they make is tailored to googlers only, just look at their build systems. They're upfront about it which I think prevents me from complaining about how hard is to contribute. I'll take Mozilla over Google every day, but if Mozilla presents itself as open to community, it also lends itself to criticism that Google avoids altogether.

hvis 7y ago
It's actually documented that Firefox does have outside contributors, even people writing code: https://blog.mozilla.org/community/2019/04/30/firefox-67-new-contributors/ https://blog.mozilla.org/community/2019/04/30/firefox-67-new... So yes, that happens, and if that's not as easy as we could have hoped, probably help is welcome with that as well. Big and complex projects generally have higher standard of effort necessary to get the leg in. The comparison to Chrome was that it's a project comparable in complexity, and yet Firefox is easier and faster to build.

robocat 7y ago

Yes. I've submitted many browser bug reports to Google, Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla over many years. I only bother to submit issues for "important" bugs, I write clearly, I simplify, and I spend significant time ensuring that the bug report is useful to developers and relevant for users. Google respects my efforts, and often fixes my reported issues, or at least explains why it can't be fixed (usually with well reasoned answers, usually the actual developer is communicating with me). Microsoft/Apple/Mozilla waste my time, ignore my efforts, and generally that results in a poorer user experience in the browser. The Chrome team is one of the most amazing software teams I have ever been tangentially involved with - and the product quality shines.

hvis 7y ago
Thank you for outlining this. Maybe someone from Mozilla's community outreach can comment and ultimately make some improvements. Specific examples of said bug reports would probably help, though.
- robocat 7y ago
  I suggest Mozilla look at the last 6 months of bugs submitted and do some analysis on them. Ideally take a subsample and talk to the submitters, and see what they think. If Mozilla agree that Google do a better job than Mozilla, then benchmark against them. I eventually stopped reporting bugs to Mozilla, Microsoft and Apple unless I absolutely had to. I recently stopped working with browsers, so I no longer have much appetite for helping.