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> But now so few intelligent people believe it is morally acceptable to be optimistic. After all, climate, race, capitalism... We have to consider the moral im

by tjr225 7y ago

> But now so few intelligent people believe it is morally acceptable to be optimistic. After all, climate, race, capitalism... We have to consider the moral implications of our social and economic structures as well as our impacts on the only place we have in the universe to live if we are going to have a positive vision of the future. The greatest challenge here is not being silenced by those who have a vested interest - logical or otherwise - in preserving the status quo with regards to these things.

dr_dshiv 7y ago
Well, my argument is that we need a positive vision without considering how exactly we will fix our social, economic and environmental issues. That's my point. We can't wait till we figure that out to have a guiding optimistic vision of the future. We simply have to assume we will figure it out. Second, and with respect, I would suggest that your rhetoric, which is quite common (and, by the way, represents vested interests in status quo intelligensia), is doing a lot of silencing. It's quite pervasive. I'd argue that contemporary liberal group norms are much more silencing than, say, the oil industry.
- tjr225 7y ago
  > Second, and with respect, I would suggest that your rhetoric, which is quite common (and, by the way, represents vested interests in status quo intelligensia), is doing a lot of silencing. It's quite pervasive. > I'd argue that contemporary liberal group norms are much more silencing than, say, the oil industry. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement? You're attempting to discredit my entire viewpoint by painting it as "liberal intelligensia rhetoric" - whatever that means. And as to your second point, the oil industry has a long record of covering up evidence of climate change, silencing victims of pollution/fracking, manipulating political process in order to continue destroying the planet, and so on. I'm not saying Harvey Weinstein should have lost his job, but the oil industry is certainly responsible for more silencing than "liberal norms" by an order of some magnitude.
  - dr_dshiv 7y ago
    I don't see the hypocrisy, no. To be clear, I'm not trying to discredit your view, I'm only suggesting that your comment was an example of optimism silencing. And, we may have to agree to disagree that the oil industry suppresses more people's speech than political correctness.

by tjr225 7y ago

dr_dshiv 7y ago

Well, my argument is that we need a positive vision without considering how exactly we will fix our social, economic and environmental issues. That's my point. We can't wait till we figure that out to have a guiding optimistic vision of the future. We simply have to assume we will figure it out. Second, and with respect, I would suggest that your rhetoric, which is quite common (and, by the way, represents vested interests in status quo intelligensia), is doing a lot of silencing. It's quite pervasive. I'd argue that contemporary liberal group norms are much more silencing than, say, the oil industry.

tjr225 7y ago
> Second, and with respect, I would suggest that your rhetoric, which is quite common (and, by the way, represents vested interests in status quo intelligensia), is doing a lot of silencing. It's quite pervasive. > I'd argue that contemporary liberal group norms are much more silencing than, say, the oil industry. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement? You're attempting to discredit my entire viewpoint by painting it as "liberal intelligensia rhetoric" - whatever that means. And as to your second point, the oil industry has a long record of covering up evidence of climate change, silencing victims of pollution/fracking, manipulating political process in order to continue destroying the planet, and so on. I'm not saying Harvey Weinstein should have lost his job, but the oil industry is certainly responsible for more silencing than "liberal norms" by an order of some magnitude.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  I don't see the hypocrisy, no. To be clear, I'm not trying to discredit your view, I'm only suggesting that your comment was an example of optimism silencing. And, we may have to agree to disagree that the oil industry suppresses more people's speech than political correctness.