5 ms·

The American blueberry (northern highbush blueberry, Vaccinium corymbosum) is, well, American. And also in British English the word blueberry refers to the Amer

by sampo 7y ago

The American blueberry (northern highbush blueberry, Vaccinium corymbosum) is, well, American. And also in British English the word blueberry refers to the American blueberry. But the British must have had access to the European blueberry (bilberry, Vaccinium myrtillus) long before anyone transported American blueberries to Britain/Europe? So, to which berry did the word blueberry refer to in England 100 or 200 years ago? And when did the meaning change? I am puzzled by this.

benj111 7y ago
The British do have access to Bilberries, I believe I can see a patch from my house. I believe the term European Blueberry may have been retroactively applied, although the Scots call bilberries blaeberries, so it could be a corruption of that.
- wolfhumble 7y ago
  > Scots call bilberries blaeberries, so it could be a corruption of that. Interesting. 'Blae' in Blaeberries seems very close to 'Blå' in Blåbær (Norwegian, Danish), Blåbär (Swedish) which means blueberry; typically found wild in the forest.
  - benj111 7y ago
    Wikipedia possibly agrees "The name “bilberry” appears to have a Scandinavian origin, possibly from as early as 1577, being similar to the Danish word bølle" Interestingly bilberry seems to be a Northern England thing, southerners call them whortleberries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilberry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilberry
    - sampo 7y ago
      So even though a word "blue berry" exists in Danish/Norwegian/Swedish (blåbær/blåbær/blåbär) and German (blaubeere) and even in Scots (blaeberry), the English called them whortleberries? And the English language just didn't have the word blueberry until the American berries were brought to Europe? Fascinating. Well, apparently also Dutch, French, Italian and Spanish don't have a word "blue berry" (Dutch has now, for the American blueberry). So maybe it's not that universal.
      - benj111 7y ago
        The Southern English call them whortleberries. What can I say, they're strange folk down there ;) To be fair blueberries aren't that blue, and bilberries even less so, it's about as self evident as describing white grapes as white. It's even possible the fruit predates the colour. That's the case for Orange which only became a colour in the 16th Century, and was named after the fruit.
  - mcv 7y ago
    In Dutch, I think the billberry is called "bosbes" ("forest berry"). The blueberry is simply called "blauwe bes" ("blue berry"). They're often confused, and the blueberry seems to be treated as a cheaper substitute for the "bosbes".
  - vidarh 7y ago
    You're probably right. Wiktionary suggests Scots 'blae' does have a shared root with blå in the Norse blár [1], which makes sense as a large portion of the difference between Scots and modern English is that Scots has retained a lot more Germanic and Norse words. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bl%C3%A1r#Old_Norse https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bl%C3%A1r#Old_Norse
arethuza 7y ago
Growing up here in Scotland in the 70s/80s I'd never encountered blueberries other than in references to American cooking - we do have blaeberries which appear to be the same things as the European blueberry: http://www.wild-scotland.org.uk/species/99/blaeberry-also-known-as-bilberry-/ http://www.wild-scotland.org.uk/species/99/blaeberry-also-kn...
vidarh 7y ago
I'm Norwegian, and have never heard (or noticed) anyway, the word bilberry until today, and apparently that must be what I'm used to, and referring to as blueberry. Including for the last 20 years living in the UK... Apparently I haven't noticed the difference enough to stop and wonder if the words referred to the same thing, so it may well have just been a matter of what has sold best. Same as lots of people (me included) confuse clementines and mandarins, or refers to "bananas" without in many cases even being aware their are many types... They're "close enough".

by sampo 7y ago

benj111 7y ago

The British do have access to Bilberries, I believe I can see a patch from my house. I believe the term European Blueberry may have been retroactively applied, although the Scots call bilberries blaeberries, so it could be a corruption of that.

wolfhumble 7y ago
> Scots call bilberries blaeberries, so it could be a corruption of that. Interesting. 'Blae' in Blaeberries seems very close to 'Blå' in Blåbær (Norwegian, Danish), Blåbär (Swedish) which means blueberry; typically found wild in the forest.
- benj111 7y ago
  Wikipedia possibly agrees "The name “bilberry” appears to have a Scandinavian origin, possibly from as early as 1577, being similar to the Danish word bølle" Interestingly bilberry seems to be a Northern England thing, southerners call them whortleberries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilberry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilberry
  - sampo 7y ago
    So even though a word "blue berry" exists in Danish/Norwegian/Swedish (blåbær/blåbær/blåbär) and German (blaubeere) and even in Scots (blaeberry), the English called them whortleberries? And the English language just didn't have the word blueberry until the American berries were brought to Europe? Fascinating. Well, apparently also Dutch, French, Italian and Spanish don't have a word "blue berry" (Dutch has now, for the American blueberry). So maybe it's not that universal.
    - benj111 7y ago
      The Southern English call them whortleberries. What can I say, they're strange folk down there ;) To be fair blueberries aren't that blue, and bilberries even less so, it's about as self evident as describing white grapes as white. It's even possible the fruit predates the colour. That's the case for Orange which only became a colour in the 16th Century, and was named after the fruit.
- mcv 7y ago
  In Dutch, I think the billberry is called "bosbes" ("forest berry"). The blueberry is simply called "blauwe bes" ("blue berry"). They're often confused, and the blueberry seems to be treated as a cheaper substitute for the "bosbes".
- vidarh 7y ago
  You're probably right. Wiktionary suggests Scots 'blae' does have a shared root with blå in the Norse blár [1], which makes sense as a large portion of the difference between Scots and modern English is that Scots has retained a lot more Germanic and Norse words. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bl%C3%A1r#Old_Norse https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bl%C3%A1r#Old_Norse

arethuza 7y ago

Growing up here in Scotland in the 70s/80s I'd never encountered blueberries other than in references to American cooking - we do have blaeberries which appear to be the same things as the European blueberry: http://www.wild-scotland.org.uk/species/99/blaeberry-also-known-as-bilberry-/ http://www.wild-scotland.org.uk/species/99/blaeberry-also-kn...

vidarh 7y ago

I'm Norwegian, and have never heard (or noticed) anyway, the word bilberry until today, and apparently that must be what I'm used to, and referring to as blueberry. Including for the last 20 years living in the UK... Apparently I haven't noticed the difference enough to stop and wonder if the words referred to the same thing, so it may well have just been a matter of what has sold best. Same as lots of people (me included) confuse clementines and mandarins, or refers to "bananas" without in many cases even being aware their are many types... They're "close enough".