4 ms·

Well, this is a much less controversial choice compared to the Nobel Prize in Literature 2019.

by input_sh 7y ago

fmajid 7y ago
The list of people who were passed over the Literature prize is more distinguished than those it was granted to.
- input_sh 7y ago
  This year's winner called for the Literature prize to be abolished a few years ago. I can't help but agree with him on that.
Nokinside 7y ago
The literature price committee's has zero credibility after the scandal. The nominations are just trying to signal something related to the functioning of committee. Let's pick man and a woman who signal we are better people now, somehow.
- estomagordo 7y ago
  I fail to see how the literature price committee's credibility has somehow sunken because of the scandals within the academy. The committee now consists partly of non-academy members and surely the academy itsel must be better off after its purgatory?
the_duke 7y ago
From a global perspective, awarding two European writers yet again is just a failure. From a purely literary perspective, Handke is a great and influential writer, who was a hot candidate for a long time. For his work, I think the award is justified. On a personal level, his ex-wife accused him of physical abuse, he held a eulogy for a war criminal, was known for cursing and berating his audience, ... If he still should have received it regardless depends on a difficult value judgement: do you purely choose based on a writers work, or does his personality influence the decision?
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Handke is a great and influential writer I have couple of free weekends coming up. which book should read ?
  - jansan 7y ago
    Of course "Die Angst des Tormanns beim Elfmeter"
- phaus 7y ago
  I can get behind excluding individual authors from the award for being terrible people, but I can't get behind purposely giving the award to someone that's not European if Europeans would have otherwise deserved it based solely on the merits of their writing. There's plenty of amazing things written by non-white people. However, the Nobel prize for literature should remain a pure meritocracy as much as possible. That's not to say that its a perfect system. If you point to any given year you can likely find examples of written works that didn't get the award but are arguably as good if not better. If you intentionally limit the pool of potential awardees to people that are not white, you make a mockery of the award and it loses any sense of prestige or credibility, even if the non-white awardee was truly the best writer. Not only are you discriminating against certain people, you are also doing a disservice to the very people you want to help. I think a better solution would be to try and make sure the people involved in the process aren't heavily biased towards any specific demographic of authors. There are probably additional ways to improve the system, but I think if we want the award to mean anything they have to be focused on eliminating discrimination, rather than using it as a tool to generate an equality in outcomes. Edit: I should note that this reflects my thoughts on prestigious awards being meritocracies, it doesn't reflect my thoughts anything else, there are lots of complicated issues such as affirmative action, university quotas, etc. That I am not making a comment about because I don't know what the optimal solution is to solving those problems.
  - aeturnum 7y ago
    What do you think about the critiques of our understanding of merit - specifically the idea that our cultural experiences bias our understanding and perception of excellence? I.e. If all your examples of good writing are written by a european for other europeans, you will likely associate some cultural practices that aren't required for good writing with your understanding of "good writing." The whole idea of developing taste is, of course, that it is somewhat subjective. I think the idea of meritocracy is one worth pursuing, but I think modern advocates for it as a thing that actually exists today should engage more energetically with the critiques of it in practice.

Well, this is a much less controversial choice compared to the Nobel Prize in Literature 2019.

fmajid 7y ago

The list of people who were passed over the Literature prize is more distinguished than those it was granted to.

input_sh 7y ago
This year's winner called for the Literature prize to be abolished a few years ago. I can't help but agree with him on that.

Nokinside 7y ago

The literature price committee's has zero credibility after the scandal. The nominations are just trying to signal something related to the functioning of committee. Let's pick man and a woman who signal we are better people now, somehow.

estomagordo 7y ago
I fail to see how the literature price committee's credibility has somehow sunken because of the scandals within the academy. The committee now consists partly of non-academy members and surely the academy itsel must be better off after its purgatory?

the_duke 7y ago

From a global perspective, awarding two European writers yet again is just a failure. From a purely literary perspective, Handke is a great and influential writer, who was a hot candidate for a long time. For his work, I think the award is justified. On a personal level, his ex-wife accused him of physical abuse, he held a eulogy for a war criminal, was known for cursing and berating his audience, ... If he still should have received it regardless depends on a difficult value judgement: do you purely choose based on a writers work, or does his personality influence the decision?

dominotw 7y ago
> Handke is a great and influential writer I have couple of free weekends coming up. which book should read ?
- jansan 7y ago
  Of course "Die Angst des Tormanns beim Elfmeter"
phaus 7y ago
I can get behind excluding individual authors from the award for being terrible people, but I can't get behind purposely giving the award to someone that's not European if Europeans would have otherwise deserved it based solely on the merits of their writing. There's plenty of amazing things written by non-white people. However, the Nobel prize for literature should remain a pure meritocracy as much as possible. That's not to say that its a perfect system. If you point to any given year you can likely find examples of written works that didn't get the award but are arguably as good if not better. If you intentionally limit the pool of potential awardees to people that are not white, you make a mockery of the award and it loses any sense of prestige or credibility, even if the non-white awardee was truly the best writer. Not only are you discriminating against certain people, you are also doing a disservice to the very people you want to help. I think a better solution would be to try and make sure the people involved in the process aren't heavily biased towards any specific demographic of authors. There are probably additional ways to improve the system, but I think if we want the award to mean anything they have to be focused on eliminating discrimination, rather than using it as a tool to generate an equality in outcomes. Edit: I should note that this reflects my thoughts on prestigious awards being meritocracies, it doesn't reflect my thoughts anything else, there are lots of complicated issues such as affirmative action, university quotas, etc. That I am not making a comment about because I don't know what the optimal solution is to solving those problems.
- aeturnum 7y ago
  What do you think about the critiques of our understanding of merit - specifically the idea that our cultural experiences bias our understanding and perception of excellence? I.e. If all your examples of good writing are written by a european for other europeans, you will likely associate some cultural practices that aren't required for good writing with your understanding of "good writing." The whole idea of developing taste is, of course, that it is somewhat subjective. I think the idea of meritocracy is one worth pursuing, but I think modern advocates for it as a thing that actually exists today should engage more energetically with the critiques of it in practice.