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"Okay, the climate is burning .. but can we please calm down and stop throwing water on the guys starting the fires .." - doesn't seem like a very productive re

by mmjaa 7y ago

"Okay, the climate is burning .. but can we please calm down and stop throwing water on the guys starting the fires .." - doesn't seem like a very productive response. I think, also, you have to temper your hatred of Greta for being an uppity pre-teen, with the realization that Oil companies have known about the climate problem since the 70's and have actively worked to obfuscate the issue in order to protect their yearly profits. For DECADES. Without taking that into account, any discussion over the 'appropriate behaviour of Greta' is certainly ingenuous, if not downright specious...

tjansen 7y ago
Living in Germany, with its history of ineffective but expensive actions against climate change, I do wish people would stay a bit calmer. Germany could have used its money to fund research that would help solve the issue globally. Instead we spent incredible amounts of money on low-tech solutions without actually reducing our climate footprint or even having a plan of how to eliminate fossil fuels. (Not sure why you always come back to Greta T. She's really not relevant in this discussion)
- mmjaa 7y ago
  Greta was the subject of the OP I originally responded to. I think she is relevant, since she is the #1 figurehead for climate change responsibility at the moment. Anyway, I hear your point about Germany, but .. so? We can't go back and fix this. We must look forward to our own futures and do something effective about it NOW. Myself, I'm divesting myself of all oil-based energy sources. I get my electricity from renewable (wind) sources, and live in Austria where we have been managing renewable energy projects for centuries.
  - tjansen 7y ago
    Question: do you also get electricity on days without wind, or what's your power source on those days?
    - mmjaa 7y ago
      Hydroelectric is always there for us. Austria is a pretty green country - a lot of countries would do well to follow its model for energy management.
      - tjansen 7y ago
        Yes, but the potential of hydro is already maxed out in many countries. According to Wikipedia, Austria produces 55% of its energy using hydro. That's great, but most other countries can't do this. In Germany it generates less than 10%. There is no way to follow the Austrian model. There are not many options for energy sources that are reliable all year and can provide enough energy to replace fossils. There's also no efficient way to store enough energy to overcome the fluctuation in wind energy. Wind is just not a path to being carbon neutral without having a way to store the energy. It can reduce emissions from fossil fuels when it is available, but it can't replace them.

by mmjaa 7y ago

tjansen 7y ago

Living in Germany, with its history of ineffective but expensive actions against climate change, I do wish people would stay a bit calmer. Germany could have used its money to fund research that would help solve the issue globally. Instead we spent incredible amounts of money on low-tech solutions without actually reducing our climate footprint or even having a plan of how to eliminate fossil fuels. (Not sure why you always come back to Greta T. She's really not relevant in this discussion)

mmjaa 7y ago
Greta was the subject of the OP I originally responded to. I think she is relevant, since she is the #1 figurehead for climate change responsibility at the moment. Anyway, I hear your point about Germany, but .. so? We can't go back and fix this. We must look forward to our own futures and do something effective about it NOW. Myself, I'm divesting myself of all oil-based energy sources. I get my electricity from renewable (wind) sources, and live in Austria where we have been managing renewable energy projects for centuries.
- tjansen 7y ago
  Question: do you also get electricity on days without wind, or what's your power source on those days?
  - mmjaa 7y ago
    Hydroelectric is always there for us. Austria is a pretty green country - a lot of countries would do well to follow its model for energy management.
    - tjansen 7y ago
      Yes, but the potential of hydro is already maxed out in many countries. According to Wikipedia, Austria produces 55% of its energy using hydro. That's great, but most other countries can't do this. In Germany it generates less than 10%. There is no way to follow the Austrian model. There are not many options for energy sources that are reliable all year and can provide enough energy to replace fossils. There's also no efficient way to store enough energy to overcome the fluctuation in wind energy. Wind is just not a path to being carbon neutral without having a way to store the energy. It can reduce emissions from fossil fuels when it is available, but it can't replace them.