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My father used to have a gigantic collection of index cards when he worked as a professor at a high school for librarians. We're talking about 100,000 cards or

My father used to have a gigantic collection of index cards when he worked as a professor at a high school for librarians. We're talking about 100,000 cards or more. When he had to give a seminar session about topic X, he just selected a bunch of cards from his well-ordered, beautiful wooden storage boxes, fastened them with a rubber band, and took them for work. They contained references, small summaries, newspaper articles, keywords, etc. I tried to use the same system but never had the patience to implement it - and the digital versus analogue divide also prevented it, because this works best if you use only digital or only analogue. Index cards and a database don't work well together. Edit: Maybe important, and I forget to mention it: All of my attempts of replicating such a system on the computer have failed, and I have never heard of anyone in Academia who successfully used a digital system throughout their career. #1 Reason of failure is that the database format or program became obsolete, #2 Database/Systems Migration problems.

slightwinder 7y ago
There are many people who succeed with simple textfiles as a digital solution. Nowadays there are also many building up on this, adding more complexity by using markup languages like markdown or org-mode, and building tools around this. Digital only really fails at some point if you wanna utilize the full power of computers, and go full database, automation and complex architectures. Which is kinda paradox.
MrGilbert 7y ago
I think going plaintext might be the best way here. I wonder, though... I think writing something by hand gives a different feel for it. I don't know how to explain it. It's like your mind works better if you write by hand. So maybe an app, used with a stylus on a tablet or large-ish phone might be the best combination? It should then create folders and textfiles, and just store the text there. Which would require OCR and proofreading, of course. But that shouldn't be an issue.
- bryankam 7y ago
  Agreed! That's why I went for markdown in implementing it for myself. Handwriting definitely helps, but a lot of it in this system is done during reading (or just general life), which Ahrens calls "literature notes". Ahrens has a theory that handwriting forces paraphrasing, which he views as important to learning. Anyway, I handwrite all that, then there's a later stage of integrating the relevant info into the system. For me, searchability and accessibility, plus backup (I write a ton on paper already and I'm a bit worried about losing notebooks) makes it worth the digital step. Also, I suspect from initial usage that the Zettelkasten is what Krakauer calls a "complementary cognitive artifact": https://philosophicaldisquisitions.blogspot.com/2016/09/competitive-cognitive-artifacts-and.html https://philosophicaldisquisitions.blogspot.com/2016/09/comp... I.e., it makes you better at what you're trying to do even in the absence of the tool. To me, the main benefit of the system is that it encourages relational thinking.
  - chrisweekly 7y ago
    Hi @bryankam, I just realized you're the author of the linked article. Thank you so much for writing and sharing and commenting. Regarding handwriting, I'm of a similar mind, having evolved my own system (hybrid of bullet journal + "slice-planner" in monthly moleskine quad-ruled paper journals, plus .md files and evernote) which is in need of some refinement.
- slightwinder 7y ago
  Handwriting is freeform, while digital gives constraints. With keyboard you can't arrange text and draw stuff as simple as with a pen on paper, most applications don't even support it at all. Stylus is indeed big step in this direction, but still is a tick off. Also with a tablet you tend to suffer from "modern technology"-syndrom, meaning you wanna utilize all the good features now that you have it at your stylus tip. But they tend to make thinks complicate aagin.
  - submeta 7y ago
    The problem with digital handwritten notes is: They are more problematic than all the proprietary databases and file formats that we have. Personally I started using the iPadPro with the Apple pencil last christmas. Generated tons of notes with an app called Notability. Soon I realized that my notes are trapped in their proprietary format. Sure, I can export to PDF, but that’s not their database format. I have seen many good and useful apps come and go. After these apps become abandonware[^1] we have tons of data created in those proprietary data formats, trapped in them. [^1] off the top of my head: WordPerfect, MS Word pre 2000, AskSam (fulltext database), Netmanage‘s ECCOPro (a PIM), NoteMap (an outliner), MindJet‘s MindManager, MS Access pre 2000. - Tons of data that I created in those apps waiting to be migrated.
    - flarg 7y ago
      Mind manager is still available
    - slightwinder 7y ago
      And what is the problem with PDF? Is it missing information from your input?
Cladode 7y ago
I've been using a system like that successfully as an academic (for some interpretation of successful). Started when I was a PhD student 25 years ago, and have been maintaining it ever since. I was inspired by Niklas Luhmann's Zettelkasten, whom I read voraciously as a teenager. I started as an undergraduate with hand-written index cards, but the obvious advantages of electronic files (fast search, cut/paste, easy backup, doesn't need physical space) were immediately clear to me, so I moved to a computer-based system. As I had already been burned by proprietary formats before, I use html as format from day one, every index card is html file in a separate directory. This has various advantages, including - Easy consistent styling through css - No WYSIWYG, separation of content and styling - Easy to include code, which sits in the directory associated with the index card - Easy to cross link - Easy to backup - Everything is under git control - Easy to write shell scripts / programs that automate various tasks related to my notes - Search with standard tools like grep - Edit in my favourite text editor (Org-mode for quick drafting is especially useful I find) - High quality rendering through modern browsers - Easy to cut and paste into emails, whatsapp skype discord etc which is how I communicate with students and colleagues - Easy to include other formats like images sound video etc - Since the emergence of MathJax I can use LaTeX markup which means I can cut-and-paste between my index cards, scientific papers and lecture notes/slides In summary, I'm super glad I didn't go super-hi-tech and stuck with marked-up text. It was the right choice! As Graydon Hoare once wrote: "[A]lways bet on text." How much work is it? I spend 1-2 hours on average every day on writing. Is it worth my time? What are the advantages for me that keep me using such a system? - Structured, easily accessible 'idea store' / second-memory for later refinement and reuse. Refinement is maybe even the core: when I come back to a subject years later I come back from a different angle - Helps writing introductory sections in papers, because I will have sketched my understanding of a subject already on an index card - Helps writing related work sections in papers, because I accumulate work related to any particular index card's subjects over years - Makes reviewing papers much easier, because I can cut-and-paste missing related work (most scientific papers are written by PhD students and post-docs who lack a historical perspective) - Communicating with students: as an academic I get new students every year, and since they got through similar stages and problems, it has become easy to reuse what I wrote in paste years - The most important: cultivating a habit of writing down ideas, writing about ideas in a structured way, breaking them down into smaller parts etc, all of which helps me to understand things better, and to communicate them more clearly to others Is it worth it? I ask myself this question every day. I found that in the first few years, I could always remember what I had written, so my system was of limited use. That changed after about 8 years, when I could no longer recall most of what I had written down, and then it became rather useful, since I got 'new' and already pre-digested ideas. For me the biggest problem is that it has also become a procrastination device: I love writing. Whenever I am stuck with a work problem (and that happens a lot), I have a tendency to procrastinate by writing long entries on obscure subjects, unrelated to my work. It feels like work, in some sense it is work, but it lets me avoid confronting high-priority tasks head on.

slightwinder 7y ago

There are many people who succeed with simple textfiles as a digital solution. Nowadays there are also many building up on this, adding more complexity by using markup languages like markdown or org-mode, and building tools around this. Digital only really fails at some point if you wanna utilize the full power of computers, and go full database, automation and complex architectures. Which is kinda paradox.

MrGilbert 7y ago

I think going plaintext might be the best way here. I wonder, though... I think writing something by hand gives a different feel for it. I don't know how to explain it. It's like your mind works better if you write by hand. So maybe an app, used with a stylus on a tablet or large-ish phone might be the best combination? It should then create folders and textfiles, and just store the text there. Which would require OCR and proofreading, of course. But that shouldn't be an issue.

bryankam 7y ago
Agreed! That's why I went for markdown in implementing it for myself. Handwriting definitely helps, but a lot of it in this system is done during reading (or just general life), which Ahrens calls "literature notes". Ahrens has a theory that handwriting forces paraphrasing, which he views as important to learning. Anyway, I handwrite all that, then there's a later stage of integrating the relevant info into the system. For me, searchability and accessibility, plus backup (I write a ton on paper already and I'm a bit worried about losing notebooks) makes it worth the digital step. Also, I suspect from initial usage that the Zettelkasten is what Krakauer calls a "complementary cognitive artifact": https://philosophicaldisquisitions.blogspot.com/2016/09/competitive-cognitive-artifacts-and.html https://philosophicaldisquisitions.blogspot.com/2016/09/comp... I.e., it makes you better at what you're trying to do even in the absence of the tool. To me, the main benefit of the system is that it encourages relational thinking.
- chrisweekly 7y ago
  Hi @bryankam, I just realized you're the author of the linked article. Thank you so much for writing and sharing and commenting. Regarding handwriting, I'm of a similar mind, having evolved my own system (hybrid of bullet journal + "slice-planner" in monthly moleskine quad-ruled paper journals, plus .md files and evernote) which is in need of some refinement.
slightwinder 7y ago
Handwriting is freeform, while digital gives constraints. With keyboard you can't arrange text and draw stuff as simple as with a pen on paper, most applications don't even support it at all. Stylus is indeed big step in this direction, but still is a tick off. Also with a tablet you tend to suffer from "modern technology"-syndrom, meaning you wanna utilize all the good features now that you have it at your stylus tip. But they tend to make thinks complicate aagin.
- submeta 7y ago
  The problem with digital handwritten notes is: They are more problematic than all the proprietary databases and file formats that we have. Personally I started using the iPadPro with the Apple pencil last christmas. Generated tons of notes with an app called Notability. Soon I realized that my notes are trapped in their proprietary format. Sure, I can export to PDF, but that’s not their database format. I have seen many good and useful apps come and go. After these apps become abandonware[^1] we have tons of data created in those proprietary data formats, trapped in them. [^1] off the top of my head: WordPerfect, MS Word pre 2000, AskSam (fulltext database), Netmanage‘s ECCOPro (a PIM), NoteMap (an outliner), MindJet‘s MindManager, MS Access pre 2000. - Tons of data that I created in those apps waiting to be migrated.
  - flarg 7y ago
    Mind manager is still available
  - slightwinder 7y ago
    And what is the problem with PDF? Is it missing information from your input?

Cladode 7y ago

I've been using a system like that successfully as an academic (for some interpretation of successful). Started when I was a PhD student 25 years ago, and have been maintaining it ever since. I was inspired by Niklas Luhmann's Zettelkasten, whom I read voraciously as a teenager. I started as an undergraduate with hand-written index cards, but the obvious advantages of electronic files (fast search, cut/paste, easy backup, doesn't need physical space) were immediately clear to me, so I moved to a computer-based system. As I had already been burned by proprietary formats before, I use html as format from day one, every index card is html file in a separate directory. This has various advantages, including - Easy consistent styling through css - No WYSIWYG, separation of content and styling - Easy to include code, which sits in the directory associated with the index card - Easy to cross link - Easy to backup - Everything is under git control - Easy to write shell scripts / programs that automate various tasks related to my notes - Search with standard tools like grep - Edit in my favourite text editor (Org-mode for quick drafting is especially useful I find) - High quality rendering through modern browsers - Easy to cut and paste into emails, whatsapp skype discord etc which is how I communicate with students and colleagues - Easy to include other formats like images sound video etc - Since the emergence of MathJax I can use LaTeX markup which means I can cut-and-paste between my index cards, scientific papers and lecture notes/slides In summary, I'm super glad I didn't go super-hi-tech and stuck with marked-up text. It was the right choice! As Graydon Hoare once wrote: "[A]lways bet on text." How much work is it? I spend 1-2 hours on average every day on writing. Is it worth my time? What are the advantages for me that keep me using such a system? - Structured, easily accessible 'idea store' / second-memory for later refinement and reuse. Refinement is maybe even the core: when I come back to a subject years later I come back from a different angle - Helps writing introductory sections in papers, because I will have sketched my understanding of a subject already on an index card - Helps writing related work sections in papers, because I accumulate work related to any particular index card's subjects over years - Makes reviewing papers much easier, because I can cut-and-paste missing related work (most scientific papers are written by PhD students and post-docs who lack a historical perspective) - Communicating with students: as an academic I get new students every year, and since they got through similar stages and problems, it has become easy to reuse what I wrote in paste years - The most important: cultivating a habit of writing down ideas, writing about ideas in a structured way, breaking them down into smaller parts etc, all of which helps me to understand things better, and to communicate them more clearly to others Is it worth it? I ask myself this question every day. I found that in the first few years, I could always remember what I had written, so my system was of limited use. That changed after about 8 years, when I could no longer recall most of what I had written down, and then it became rather useful, since I got 'new' and already pre-digested ideas. For me the biggest problem is that it has also become a procrastination device: I love writing. Whenever I am stuck with a work problem (and that happens a lot), I have a tendency to procrastinate by writing long entries on obscure subjects, unrelated to my work. It feels like work, in some sense it is work, but it lets me avoid confronting high-priority tasks head on.