5 ms·

Given that Chrome ended Opera, and is effectively ending IE/Edge, people really need to take pause and appreciate and be thankful that Firefox is still around.

by nly 7y ago

Given that Chrome ended Opera, and is effectively ending IE/Edge, people really need to take pause and appreciate and be thankful that Firefox is still around. I think the "shady shit" Mozilla has pulled lately are death rattles. I certainly don't expect it to be around in another 5-10 years. Firefox's tiny market share is all that stands between all the W3C and WHATG publications going from "standards" to "what Chromium does". Google is a giant corporation. One day they're going to do an IE6, and shift their focus away from the project, and the whole web will suffer.

pawelmurias 7y ago
Why would they ever do an IE6? They don't want to cripple the web as an application platform as MS did but move as much things as possible onto it.
- mpol 7y ago
  "Doing an IE6" for Google would be quite different from what Microsoft did, who wanted the desktop to stay relevant. For Google the web is just an advertisement platform. If/When Firefix is gone, they will hold all the cards. "Doing an IE6" might mean removing support for ad-blockers. Or making Google DNS mandatory. Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience. Assume they will find creative ways to monetize the web, ways that we didn't even think of yet. If you thought the web in 2019 was bad, beware of the Google Future.
  - pavlov 7y ago
    AMP seems to be an example of the kind of web that (some parts of) Google wants. Hosted on their servers, transformed by their tools, commoditized and sanitized for ad insertion. Today when you navigate to google.com from Microsoft Edge, there's a barrage of popups urging you to use Chrome instead. When Chrome is completely dominant, maybe those popups will be on non-AMP sites urging you to "get the best experience"? It's guaranteed that there will be a lot of internal pressure to use Chrome to promote the goals of other divisions at Google.
  - smitherfield 7y ago
    "Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience." Chrome already does this.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    > the web is just an advertisement platform And a key UI target for a huge chunk of their applications and services, including search. If "web browsing" doesn't work in Chrome, that's kind of a big deal for Google.
- appleflaxen 7y ago
  Why did MS want to do an IE6? For power and control. You imply a difference in your statement, but it's only a matter of time before it becomes too seductive to resist. It only needs to make sense in the minds of a handful of high-level managers, and we all suffer.
rkangel 7y ago
> I think the "shady shit" Mozilla has pulled lately are death rattles. Would you mind briefly elaborating on this? I wasn't aware that Mozilla had done anything apart from behave well.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Bundling Pocket, resetting default search provider back to Google on updates. Just a couple off the top of my head. I'm a long-time Firefox user, FWIW.
  - pedrogpimenta 7y ago
    Yeah, bundling Pocket is not good, but if you don't use it I guess you're not being tracked? Or is there proof that it sends your info either way? > resetting default search provider back to Google on updates Never happened to me. Was this a specific update I might have missed?
  - senorjazz 7y ago
    > Bundling Pocket Why is that a problem? I never got the furore over it. When it appeared, I removed the icon and just went about my business. Annoying yes, but certainly not "shady". From what I understood / stand it was a mozilla app they included with the browser, not that different to how firefox comes with a bookmarks app.
    - kragen 7y ago
      Originally it was a proprietary program from a for-profit company. That's why people got upset.
      - Crespyl 7y ago
        The server component is still proprietary and closed source, at least the last time I checked.
    - ChristianBundy 7y ago
danmg 7y ago
Google will keep the Mozilla foundation alive, because it protects them from antitrust prosecution.
forgottenpass 7y ago
>One day they're going to do an IE6, and shift their focus away from the project, and the whole web will suffer. This would still be preferable to if they became the only browser and all web developers were subject to breakneck paced new features and discontinued compatibility as Google makes their characteristic impulsive lurches with zero long term vision.
unethical_ban 7y ago
I think a lot of the shady shit y'all are all complaining about are annoying, but not anything CLOSE to the kind of red flags that should call for the end of a product. Bad decisions does not imply evil decisions, nor does it imply death. Pocket? A convenience people may want that might have provided money, hat didn't invade privacy. DNS over HTTPS? The horror! They are trying to enhance privacy on the Internet but haven't done it perfectly!

by nly 7y ago

pawelmurias 7y ago

Why would they ever do an IE6? They don't want to cripple the web as an application platform as MS did but move as much things as possible onto it.

mpol 7y ago
"Doing an IE6" for Google would be quite different from what Microsoft did, who wanted the desktop to stay relevant. For Google the web is just an advertisement platform. If/When Firefix is gone, they will hold all the cards. "Doing an IE6" might mean removing support for ad-blockers. Or making Google DNS mandatory. Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience. Assume they will find creative ways to monetize the web, ways that we didn't even think of yet. If you thought the web in 2019 was bad, beware of the Google Future.
- pavlov 7y ago
  AMP seems to be an example of the kind of web that (some parts of) Google wants. Hosted on their servers, transformed by their tools, commoditized and sanitized for ad insertion. Today when you navigate to google.com from Microsoft Edge, there's a barrage of popups urging you to use Chrome instead. When Chrome is completely dominant, maybe those popups will be on non-AMP sites urging you to "get the best experience"? It's guaranteed that there will be a lot of internal pressure to use Chrome to promote the goals of other divisions at Google.
- smitherfield 7y ago
  "Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience." Chrome already does this.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  > the web is just an advertisement platform And a key UI target for a huge chunk of their applications and services, including search. If "web browsing" doesn't work in Chrome, that's kind of a big deal for Google.
appleflaxen 7y ago
Why did MS want to do an IE6? For power and control. You imply a difference in your statement, but it's only a matter of time before it becomes too seductive to resist. It only needs to make sense in the minds of a handful of high-level managers, and we all suffer.

rkangel 7y ago

> I think the "shady shit" Mozilla has pulled lately are death rattles. Would you mind briefly elaborating on this? I wasn't aware that Mozilla had done anything apart from behave well.

SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
Bundling Pocket, resetting default search provider back to Google on updates. Just a couple off the top of my head. I'm a long-time Firefox user, FWIW.
- pedrogpimenta 7y ago
  Yeah, bundling Pocket is not good, but if you don't use it I guess you're not being tracked? Or is there proof that it sends your info either way? > resetting default search provider back to Google on updates Never happened to me. Was this a specific update I might have missed?
- senorjazz 7y ago
  > Bundling Pocket Why is that a problem? I never got the furore over it. When it appeared, I removed the icon and just went about my business. Annoying yes, but certainly not "shady". From what I understood / stand it was a mozilla app they included with the browser, not that different to how firefox comes with a bookmarks app.
  - kragen 7y ago
    Originally it was a proprietary program from a for-profit company. That's why people got upset.
    - Crespyl 7y ago
      The server component is still proprietary and closed source, at least the last time I checked.
  - ChristianBundy 7y ago

danmg 7y ago

Google will keep the Mozilla foundation alive, because it protects them from antitrust prosecution.

forgottenpass 7y ago

>One day they're going to do an IE6, and shift their focus away from the project, and the whole web will suffer. This would still be preferable to if they became the only browser and all web developers were subject to breakneck paced new features and discontinued compatibility as Google makes their characteristic impulsive lurches with zero long term vision.

unethical_ban 7y ago

I think a lot of the shady shit y'all are all complaining about are annoying, but not anything CLOSE to the kind of red flags that should call for the end of a product. Bad decisions does not imply evil decisions, nor does it imply death. Pocket? A convenience people may want that might have provided money, hat didn't invade privacy. DNS over HTTPS? The horror! They are trying to enhance privacy on the Internet but haven't done it perfectly!