4 ms·

EDIT: I screwed this all up and it's wrong. I tried. I'm sorry. Leaving it up so someone else can give it a go. And there's already a bunch of comments. Washin

EDIT: I screwed this all up and it's wrong. I tried. I'm sorry. Leaving it up so someone else can give it a go. And there's already a bunch of comments. Washington University uses about 376,394 kWh/year. [1] That's about 7,841.54 kWh/week. Washington pays about 13.1 cents per kWh for power [2]. Running on the electric grid alone this would cost $598.59 per week. This isn't what they pay though, because they offset much of this usage with renewable energy like solar panels. That would take a 50kw generator to power. Assuming they don't power all systems during a blackout they could probably get away with a 25kw generator. For argument, let's assume a 50kw generator full load would probably use about 4.0 gallons of diesel fuel per hour. [3] At $3.64/gallon for diesel [4], at 4.0gallons/day, for one week the university's fuel cost would be $2,446.08. To recap, the university would spend $2,446.08 to generate electricity they could purchase for $598.59 from the electric company during a 7 day blackout at full capacity. [1] https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/25-of-the-most-energy-efficient-colleges/ https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/25-of-the-most-energy-ef... [2] https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/news-release/averageenergyprices_washingtondc.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/news-release/averag... [3] https://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Consumption.aspx https://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Consumpti... [4] https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/

deleted 7y ago
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jumpingmice 7y ago
How can a university draw only ~50kW? That’s not even one rack of computers. I think you missed a large factor somewhere. UCB has a 26MW gas turbine.
- skunkworker 7y ago
  That's one and a half industrial combi ovens (each takes 480V 3 phase 38kw power). Those numbers seem so low.
  - duckymcduckface 7y ago
    Cause op didn't read citation 1 where it says that the University saved that much power by switching to better light bulbs
    - zelon88 7y ago
      Yeah, I'm sorry. I edited it with a disclaimer as soon as I realized. You're welcome to continue retracing my steps to correct me though.
- techdevangelist 7y ago
  I was going to say something similar, maybe this is the core critical components that have to say running for life safety. Otherwise I routinely see single racks pulling 15-25kWh albeit vastly overloaded. But that’s the norm now.
- chockablock 7y ago
  Yeah, from the link, the quoted number is actually the amount Wash U saved by changing light bulbs. > the school has completely replaced their lights with more energy efficient, low wattage bulbs that save an average of 376,394 kW hours per year in energy
- __initbrian__ 7y ago
  About UCB: “The cogeneration plant uses a natural gas-fired GE LM2500 turbine generator to produce 25 MW of electrical power and 4 MWth of steam.” [2013] https://www.powerengineeringint.com/2013/10/14/university-of-california-cogeneration-plant-gets-its-power-back/ https://www.powerengineeringint.com/2013/10/14/university-of...
dev_dull 7y ago
Here in CA the price is about 0.29c kWh, so that’s $2,275. Pretty comparable to running a generator.
- K0SM0S 7y ago
  “0.29c kWh” WHAT? Here in France I pay 0.138c (€, thus 0.15c in $) for 100% renewable elec. That's like twice as much in CA... for what I guess is not environment-friendly by a long shot? I'd really have thought with the USA fracking their soil like it's apocalypse tomorrow, and pulling out of any carbon commitment on top of that, at the very least it would yield considerable short-term domestic advantages, i.e. cheap elec. I'd have thought you guys paid like 5 or 10c kWh. Next thing you're gonna tell me you pay more than $1.2/L ($4.6/gal) of diesel fuel. Actually just checked, diesel fuel is $3/gal, regular petrol slightly less in general (~$2.5) but more in CA. Still baffled at the cost of electricity.
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    There are parts of the US where electricity is cheap, and a few parts of California where unleaded premium fuel is at or near $4.99 per gallon. The pricing doesn't make much sense to me.
    - ericd 7y ago
      CA requires a unique gasoline mix, I think that’s responsible for a lot of the price diff overall.
      - labster 7y ago
        California has a different gasoline mix with the seasons for emissions reasons. And every time we switch between winter and summer mix, the few refineries here always seem to have mysterious maintenance emergencies. Not sure why they always need to shut down for a few days right then, but it sure makes for a supply crunch and a price bump.
  - danans 7y ago
__initbrian__ 7y ago
Thank you for writing that out! I’m guessing the problem is in the capital cost of having a generator system installed. Getting procurement, university real estate/capital projects, a general contractor, and any deans/admin involved to build the system. I have just assumed that all science buildings had backup generators by default. Movies may have tricked me. I think all hospitals are required to though, which makes sense why the researcher moved his metabolic stuff to UCSF
newnewpdro 7y ago
As user jumpingmice pointed out the obvious error in your numbers, the figure you've cited from [1] as the yearly power used was the yearly power saved by adopting efficient light bulbs: > Throughout the rest of the campus, the school has completely replaced their lights with more energy efficient, low wattage bulbs that save an average of 376,394 kW hours per year in energy. Their overall lighting plan has saved more than 20.6 million kilowatt hours in total. GIGO
- chockablock 7y ago
  I think we got trolled :)
  - zelon88 7y ago
    Nah, I was giving it an honest go. Just not diligent enough I guess. Can't delete it now though!
skunkworker 7y ago
I think some of your citations are off. The 376,394 kWh/year is the savings they got from going to low wattage bulbs. "Throughout the rest of the campus, the school has completely replaced their lights with more energy efficient, low wattage bulbs that save an average of 376,394 kW hours per year in energy" [1] And your prices are from the Washington-Arlington-Alexandria municipal area, not the St. Louis area in which Washington University St. Louis is located. [1] https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/25-of-the-most-energy-efficient-colleges/ https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/25-of-the-most-energy-ef... #7 on the list [2] https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/news-release/averageenergyprices_washingtondc.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/news-release/averag...
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deleted 7y ago

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jumpingmice 7y ago

How can a university draw only ~50kW? That’s not even one rack of computers. I think you missed a large factor somewhere. UCB has a 26MW gas turbine.

skunkworker 7y ago
That's one and a half industrial combi ovens (each takes 480V 3 phase 38kw power). Those numbers seem so low.
- duckymcduckface 7y ago
  Cause op didn't read citation 1 where it says that the University saved that much power by switching to better light bulbs
  - zelon88 7y ago
    Yeah, I'm sorry. I edited it with a disclaimer as soon as I realized. You're welcome to continue retracing my steps to correct me though.
techdevangelist 7y ago
I was going to say something similar, maybe this is the core critical components that have to say running for life safety. Otherwise I routinely see single racks pulling 15-25kWh albeit vastly overloaded. But that’s the norm now.
chockablock 7y ago
Yeah, from the link, the quoted number is actually the amount Wash U saved by changing light bulbs. > the school has completely replaced their lights with more energy efficient, low wattage bulbs that save an average of 376,394 kW hours per year in energy
__initbrian__ 7y ago
About UCB: “The cogeneration plant uses a natural gas-fired GE LM2500 turbine generator to produce 25 MW of electrical power and 4 MWth of steam.” [2013] https://www.powerengineeringint.com/2013/10/14/university-of-california-cogeneration-plant-gets-its-power-back/ https://www.powerengineeringint.com/2013/10/14/university-of...

dev_dull 7y ago

Here in CA the price is about 0.29c kWh, so that’s $2,275. Pretty comparable to running a generator.

K0SM0S 7y ago
“0.29c kWh” WHAT? Here in France I pay 0.138c (€, thus 0.15c in $) for 100% renewable elec. That's like twice as much in CA... for what I guess is not environment-friendly by a long shot? I'd really have thought with the USA fracking their soil like it's apocalypse tomorrow, and pulling out of any carbon commitment on top of that, at the very least it would yield considerable short-term domestic advantages, i.e. cheap elec. I'd have thought you guys paid like 5 or 10c kWh. Next thing you're gonna tell me you pay more than $1.2/L ($4.6/gal) of diesel fuel. Actually just checked, diesel fuel is $3/gal, regular petrol slightly less in general (~$2.5) but more in CA. Still baffled at the cost of electricity.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  There are parts of the US where electricity is cheap, and a few parts of California where unleaded premium fuel is at or near $4.99 per gallon. The pricing doesn't make much sense to me.
  - ericd 7y ago
    CA requires a unique gasoline mix, I think that’s responsible for a lot of the price diff overall.
    - labster 7y ago
      California has a different gasoline mix with the seasons for emissions reasons. And every time we switch between winter and summer mix, the few refineries here always seem to have mysterious maintenance emergencies. Not sure why they always need to shut down for a few days right then, but it sure makes for a supply crunch and a price bump.
- danans 7y ago

__initbrian__ 7y ago

Thank you for writing that out! I’m guessing the problem is in the capital cost of having a generator system installed. Getting procurement, university real estate/capital projects, a general contractor, and any deans/admin involved to build the system. I have just assumed that all science buildings had backup generators by default. Movies may have tricked me. I think all hospitals are required to though, which makes sense why the researcher moved his metabolic stuff to UCSF

newnewpdro 7y ago

As user jumpingmice pointed out the obvious error in your numbers, the figure you've cited from [1] as the yearly power used was the yearly power saved by adopting efficient light bulbs: > Throughout the rest of the campus, the school has completely replaced their lights with more energy efficient, low wattage bulbs that save an average of 376,394 kW hours per year in energy. Their overall lighting plan has saved more than 20.6 million kilowatt hours in total. GIGO

chockablock 7y ago
I think we got trolled :)
- zelon88 7y ago
  Nah, I was giving it an honest go. Just not diligent enough I guess. Can't delete it now though!

skunkworker 7y ago

I think some of your citations are off. The 376,394 kWh/year is the savings they got from going to low wattage bulbs. "Throughout the rest of the campus, the school has completely replaced their lights with more energy efficient, low wattage bulbs that save an average of 376,394 kW hours per year in energy" [1] And your prices are from the Washington-Arlington-Alexandria municipal area, not the St. Louis area in which Washington University St. Louis is located. [1] https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/25-of-the-most-energy-efficient-colleges/ https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/25-of-the-most-energy-ef... #7 on the list [2] https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/news-release/averageenergyprices_washingtondc.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/news-release/averag...

deleted 7y ago

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